Pagan Wizard
02-09-2008, 01:38 PM
I thought this one should be moved into the new forums, there is a lot of valueable information in this thread (and many other threads as well). I think everyone here should go through the old forums and find at least a few of thier favorite threads and copy them to the new forums. When you do copy them, you will have to go through the pasted version and remove all the old icons and emoticons to be able to make the post. If we all do this, it will accomplish a few different tasks....
It will ease up Kat and AZ's work load....
It will show the newcomers to the site that while the forum itself is new, the site and the community have been around for a while....
It will help preserve an incredible wealth of information.
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
USA
535 Posts
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 22:55:43
Here are some drawings I made for building custom hubs. They're not exact, so you'll have to make your own templates for your needs. You'll have to calculate the spoke lengths for whatever size wheel you want to build. Search the AZ forums for a spoke calculator, or find one online.
You'll also most probably have to buy spokes, unless you hacked enough wheels to get ones that are the right length. Here are the drawings In the 5th pic, the washer should be held in place with another nut - don't weld this nut on. renove after welding the first nut and washer together. The wheel butts agaist the washer.)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0171.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0171.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0173.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0173.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0176.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0176.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0177.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0177.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0186.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0186.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0189.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0189.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0184.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0184.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0182.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0182.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0181.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0181.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0179.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0179.jpg)
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."Edited by - TheKid007 on 01/20/2008 23:19:35
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 19:01:34 Hi kid
I love the idea of threading the hub on, but not the making of the hub. I was wondering if anyone has just tap a hub and then screwed it onto the shaft. I realize that the shaft size my not match up properly with the hub for a tap and die senerio. For this, some type of filler will have to be used taking into account that some overlap will be needed.
Regards
Now get off and go make your own!
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
USA
535 Posts
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 23:01:02 If you use steel hubs,(Alloy hubs won't work for this method) remove the bearing cups, insert 5/8" nuts, and weld them to the hubs. You'll probably have to shim the nuts to fit. Then use a length of 5/8" threaded rod to align the nuts before welding. Also, before welding, find something non flammable to completely cover the spokes. A few layers of aluminum foil will also work. Those sparks are not spoke friendly, as I found out the hard way.
Another way, if you can't get the bearing cups out, is to drill the cups out to 5/8". Do not drill them out any larger than 5/8". Grind (2) 5/8" nuts so they fit halfway into the cups, and the holes in the nuts and the bearing cups line up perfectly. Insert a length of 5/8" threaded rod, then screw one nut on each side and tighten securely before welding the nuts to the hub. (Also, wrap some tape around the threads that are showing, or else slag and spatter will prevent you from removing the threaded rod. This applies to both methods) Then just unscrew the threaded rod.
The bearing cups are made of hardened steel, and take some time to drill out, so don't think this method is a piece of cake. I highly recommend the step drills from Harbor freight for drilling out the cups, and buy one or two spare sets in case you need them.
For any of the threaded hubs, lock it on the axle with a nylock washer, or an acorn nut and a lock washer if you want it to look good. If you use rear hubs with freewheel threads, tapr those threads before welding the nuts. Install the wheel so the freewheel threads ore on the outside. You can then cut a length of the left side of a BB shell, (The side with the right hand threads) and weld on a cap on one side. This will screw onto the freewheel threads, giving a finished look to your wheel. If you want to get fancy, you could cut 3 pieces of 1/8" steel to make the hub cover into a spinner.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 10:07:57 Hi Kid
Thanks. Some good insite -- really like the spinner idea! I think I will do a 4 leaf clover as I am Irish.
This has been the best suggestion so far -- steel hubs -- not having much luck googling that.
I saw 14 inch motor cycle wheel with a diskbrake flang that gave me an idea.
A BMX hub with a disk brake flange and a bearing with a 3/4" ID then all that would be needed is a flange welded to the shaft for the disk brake frange to bolt to. Pending on the hub style, a spacer may be needed to stop bearings to slid out.
The bearings will not really be needed -- can use RichieRichs idea with the filler pipe!
The 64000 $ ? is -- Is there a 48 spoke BMX wheel with a disk brake flange that won't break my budget.
Gotta go make some blades for my tadpole for the upcoming Icebike races.
Thanks again.
Now get off and go make your own!
Richie Rich (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=577)
USA
500 Posts
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 17:27:12 Patrike...Keep in mind that the purpose of making your own hubs is not just for mounting on the axle. It's to make the distance between the hub flanges WIDER. With the weight of 2 people on the rear wheels of the KC, there's the danger of wheel collapse during a hard turn with an unmodified hub. On a 2-wheeler, you lean into the turns, but on a trike, the wheels stay vertical and are subject to high lateral forces. By widening the space between the hub flanges, you're adding strength to the wheels.
I hope this helps...
....Richie >>
=========================================
"Real men build their own..!!"
http://trikebuilder.blogspot.com/ (http://trikebuilder.blogspot.com/)
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
USA
535 Posts
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 20:04:44 Good point. You'll notice on my plans that the span from outside to outside of the spoke flanges is 3 1/2", while normal hubs are 2 1/2" wide. Also note on the Kyoto Cruiser plans, Brad has the hubs the same width as normal hubs. That's because they're 20" rims. 20" wheels are stronger than 26" wheels, due to the shorter spokes. My plan calls for wide flanges to shorten the spokes, and in conjunction with the wider hub, will make very strong wheels.
If you're going to try to use ready made 24" or 26" wheels and weld in the nuts, they should be heavy duty steel wheels with a minimum of 12ga. spokes. Don't use standard 14ga. spokes unless you widen the hub.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 08:32:58 Hey Richie Rich
Thanks for the advice -- all appreciated. I have put my tadpole through some hard G's with rough terrain and it just has basic cheap as I could get 20" BMX 36 hole. I know were talking about a slightly different beast under more weight but I am confident that 48 hole wheels will do the job for riding around the neighborhood and then some. I am going to try and get them with a thicker spoke.
Another builder in Brantford built a socialble style and has had no problems with cheapo 36 hole.
http://ca.geocities.com/melonjoe/recumbent.html (http://ca.geocities.com/melonjoe/recumbent.html)
Regards
Now get off and go make your own!
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 08:56:40 Hey Kid
Will definately try to get the 12ga spokes -- thanks.
Later.
Now get off and go make your own!
It will ease up Kat and AZ's work load....
It will show the newcomers to the site that while the forum itself is new, the site and the community have been around for a while....
It will help preserve an incredible wealth of information.
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
USA
535 Posts
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 22:55:43
Here are some drawings I made for building custom hubs. They're not exact, so you'll have to make your own templates for your needs. You'll have to calculate the spoke lengths for whatever size wheel you want to build. Search the AZ forums for a spoke calculator, or find one online.
You'll also most probably have to buy spokes, unless you hacked enough wheels to get ones that are the right length. Here are the drawings In the 5th pic, the washer should be held in place with another nut - don't weld this nut on. renove after welding the first nut and washer together. The wheel butts agaist the washer.)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0171.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0171.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0173.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0173.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0176.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0176.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0177.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0177.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0186.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0186.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0189.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0189.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0184.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0184.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0182.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0182.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0181.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0181.jpg)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0179.jpg (http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Build%20Wheels/000_0179.jpg)
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."Edited by - TheKid007 on 01/20/2008 23:19:35
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 19:01:34 Hi kid
I love the idea of threading the hub on, but not the making of the hub. I was wondering if anyone has just tap a hub and then screwed it onto the shaft. I realize that the shaft size my not match up properly with the hub for a tap and die senerio. For this, some type of filler will have to be used taking into account that some overlap will be needed.
Regards
Now get off and go make your own!
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
USA
535 Posts
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 23:01:02 If you use steel hubs,(Alloy hubs won't work for this method) remove the bearing cups, insert 5/8" nuts, and weld them to the hubs. You'll probably have to shim the nuts to fit. Then use a length of 5/8" threaded rod to align the nuts before welding. Also, before welding, find something non flammable to completely cover the spokes. A few layers of aluminum foil will also work. Those sparks are not spoke friendly, as I found out the hard way.
Another way, if you can't get the bearing cups out, is to drill the cups out to 5/8". Do not drill them out any larger than 5/8". Grind (2) 5/8" nuts so they fit halfway into the cups, and the holes in the nuts and the bearing cups line up perfectly. Insert a length of 5/8" threaded rod, then screw one nut on each side and tighten securely before welding the nuts to the hub. (Also, wrap some tape around the threads that are showing, or else slag and spatter will prevent you from removing the threaded rod. This applies to both methods) Then just unscrew the threaded rod.
The bearing cups are made of hardened steel, and take some time to drill out, so don't think this method is a piece of cake. I highly recommend the step drills from Harbor freight for drilling out the cups, and buy one or two spare sets in case you need them.
For any of the threaded hubs, lock it on the axle with a nylock washer, or an acorn nut and a lock washer if you want it to look good. If you use rear hubs with freewheel threads, tapr those threads before welding the nuts. Install the wheel so the freewheel threads ore on the outside. You can then cut a length of the left side of a BB shell, (The side with the right hand threads) and weld on a cap on one side. This will screw onto the freewheel threads, giving a finished look to your wheel. If you want to get fancy, you could cut 3 pieces of 1/8" steel to make the hub cover into a spinner.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 10:07:57 Hi Kid
Thanks. Some good insite -- really like the spinner idea! I think I will do a 4 leaf clover as I am Irish.
This has been the best suggestion so far -- steel hubs -- not having much luck googling that.
I saw 14 inch motor cycle wheel with a diskbrake flang that gave me an idea.
A BMX hub with a disk brake flange and a bearing with a 3/4" ID then all that would be needed is a flange welded to the shaft for the disk brake frange to bolt to. Pending on the hub style, a spacer may be needed to stop bearings to slid out.
The bearings will not really be needed -- can use RichieRichs idea with the filler pipe!
The 64000 $ ? is -- Is there a 48 spoke BMX wheel with a disk brake flange that won't break my budget.
Gotta go make some blades for my tadpole for the upcoming Icebike races.
Thanks again.
Now get off and go make your own!
Richie Rich (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=577)
USA
500 Posts
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 17:27:12 Patrike...Keep in mind that the purpose of making your own hubs is not just for mounting on the axle. It's to make the distance between the hub flanges WIDER. With the weight of 2 people on the rear wheels of the KC, there's the danger of wheel collapse during a hard turn with an unmodified hub. On a 2-wheeler, you lean into the turns, but on a trike, the wheels stay vertical and are subject to high lateral forces. By widening the space between the hub flanges, you're adding strength to the wheels.
I hope this helps...
....Richie >>
=========================================
"Real men build their own..!!"
http://trikebuilder.blogspot.com/ (http://trikebuilder.blogspot.com/)
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
USA
535 Posts
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 20:04:44 Good point. You'll notice on my plans that the span from outside to outside of the spoke flanges is 3 1/2", while normal hubs are 2 1/2" wide. Also note on the Kyoto Cruiser plans, Brad has the hubs the same width as normal hubs. That's because they're 20" rims. 20" wheels are stronger than 26" wheels, due to the shorter spokes. My plan calls for wide flanges to shorten the spokes, and in conjunction with the wider hub, will make very strong wheels.
If you're going to try to use ready made 24" or 26" wheels and weld in the nuts, they should be heavy duty steel wheels with a minimum of 12ga. spokes. Don't use standard 14ga. spokes unless you widen the hub.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 08:32:58 Hey Richie Rich
Thanks for the advice -- all appreciated. I have put my tadpole through some hard G's with rough terrain and it just has basic cheap as I could get 20" BMX 36 hole. I know were talking about a slightly different beast under more weight but I am confident that 48 hole wheels will do the job for riding around the neighborhood and then some. I am going to try and get them with a thicker spoke.
Another builder in Brantford built a socialble style and has had no problems with cheapo 36 hole.
http://ca.geocities.com/melonjoe/recumbent.html (http://ca.geocities.com/melonjoe/recumbent.html)
Regards
Now get off and go make your own!
Patrike (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1332)
Canada
23 Posts
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 08:56:40 Hey Kid
Will definately try to get the 12ga spokes -- thanks.
Later.
Now get off and go make your own!