Committed now

[darnthedog]

I finally decided to go with the Delta Runner- Thanks for the great books and plans Brad and Kat. And thanks for the advice GBWolf. And I would have never jump in on this without the links to supplier provided by the whole AZ Krew. Bought the plans today and have already read through them twice. Already had the book Bike, Scooter, And Chopper Projects for the Evil Genius for weeks and have been planning and deciding.

I have been collecting bikes from friends and Goodwill for a few weeks now and managed to buy some steel. Today I will be starting on the rear frame and main boom. I am still waiting on the bearings to arrive.

I have a couple questions on dimensions and such for Brad.

I plan on using a 27" wheels, and may try and go to 29 inch wheels to increase speed in the future. In the flange instructions talks about increasing the width for lateral loading to 3.5 inches when building the hubs.
Question #1: Do I need to increase this even further to 4 or 4.5 with the larger wheels?

Question #2: In regards to the front wheel. Could a smaller 16 to 20 inch wheel be used instead of the 26 inch wheel? I mean to say will is dramatically affecting steering on the Delta runner to use a smaller wheel? I will keep in mid to use a large axle such a 1/2 inch or larger.

Question#3: While the Delta Runner calls for a disc brake could side pull brakes be mounted to a boom work on the rear wheels? And does it matter if they hang off the front of the wheels or the back of them like on the Street Fox? Or will they work in either position?

In reading through the hints and tricks I like the idea of under seat steering and may attempt to perform the same idea as done on a delta wolf to add under seat steering.

I also plan on building a removable shell for foul weather riding. But that will be the next project after building the trike.

I am building this to have a more comfortable ride to work. I ride due to a recent acknowledgment of a heath issue ( diabetes). It also helps that gas shot through the roof to give me more incentive to ride. I only go 4.5 mile each way, but in Phoenix, Arizona you can cook an egg faster on a side walk then cooking in a microwave oven during the summer. Which is why I picked the Delta Runner over the Street Fox or the Delta Wolf which I debated with myself as to which one to build first.

At present I will still need to acquire Spokes and disc brake set. Although I have plenty of side pull brakes and may modify my brake to be like the Street Fox with a boom. It would definitely be help in planning to qet my questions answer if possible before getting too far a long. I don't mean to change the whole design with these questions, just trying to fit the pieces together with what I have verses what the plans call for.

[greenevegiebeast]

Darn, I would not want to decrese the size of the front wheel.

Also going with a disc brake on a trike that is both capible of speed and towing , just makes sense. a single brake rotor will provede a whole lot more braking force than two caliper brakes could( just ask some one who down hill races), the difrence in serface area, combined with the aditonal clamping force, and the efecence gain of pressing against the solid rotor versis the flexible rim face. there is no compition.

If cost is a concern, I have seen disc brake kits for as low as 30 dollars per wheel, you just have to act fast on them the sell out quick.

[trikeman]

Darn -I don't know what kind of shape you are in, but those 27" wheels are going to be harder to push with normal bicycle gearing. I built my DW with 27" rims from an old schwinn and I still don't peddle the thing up a steep hill, even with a mega-range sprocket on the back. I preobably could if I didn't care about my 58 year old knees that saw too much jogging a decade ago, but it would be a chore. Admittedly, I also do too much upwrong riding and not enough bent riding, so my bent muscles are probably still weak.

Both the DW and the DR are cool bikes and I love to ride my DW. That said, I do not think they are as practical for commuting as the lighter narrower, and more nimble Meridian. Three wheels are harder to fit in traffic or on a bike path (my DW does fit on a bike path).

[bambuko]

Darn, I would not want to decrese the size of the front wheel...

why not?
can you please explain the reasoning behind this statement

[AtomicZombie]

The DeltaRunner is such an easy to modify trike that you could do just about anything and end up with a great ride. Keep the head tube angles, bottom bracket height, and you are all set.

I do think 1 rear disc and 1 front brake is better than having 2 brakes at the rear though. Remember, on a hard corner, 1 rear wheel will become "light", but the front wheel will not.

Brad

[TheKid]

I do think 1 rear disc and 1 front brake is better than having 2 brakes at the rear though. Remember, on a hard corner, 1 rear wheel will become "light", but the front wheel will not.


I agree. I have front and rear brakes on my DR, and I find it more efficient than the rear brakes alone. I had rear canti brakes on my quad, mounted on the front of the wheels. My LBS owner suggested moving them to the rear, or at least closer to the top. I moved them to the rear, and it made a world of difference in the stopping power. Bear in mind that using canti brakes will in all probability make the trike wider to accomodate the posts.

Many builders say the front wheel should be 16-20" on a trike, so there should be no problem there.

The DeltaRunner is such an easy to modify trike that you could do just about anything and end up with a great ride.

That's for sure!

[airjnke]

why not?
can you please explain the reasoning behind this statement
Howdy folks;
Bambuko, while I don't have the design & building experence that most in this group have, I do have some experence with a 16" wheel on the front of a delta trike & found it to be a curse. I've been riding an EZ-3 delta with a hub motor on the front for about four years. I originally had a BL-36 installed in the 16" front wheel. From the very first time I rode the trike I hated the small dia. of the front wheel. For as twitchy as it was I might as well had an old roller skate bolted on up there. The ride was extremely rough because I could feel every crack in the road & at speeds over 15mph the front became so touchy it felt unsafe. So I finally gave up on the 16" wheel. Had a custom 20" fork made for the front, installed a BD-36, & a set of 24" for the back. The larger dia. wheels made all the difference in the world. Now, along with a springer seat, the trike is a dream to ride. I'm sure there are probably some times that a 16" wheel would be called for, like on a chopper or something, but for actual comfortable riding I now avoid small dia. wheels like the plague. My back & butt still ache from too many hours in one. :-)
Take it EZ;
Dave
http://www.flickr.com/photos/airjnke/

[bambuko]

thank you Dave,
that's very much more useful reply :) than simply stating "don't do something"
and it makes sense as well.
Chris
ps I like your Flickr album!
http://picasaweb.google.com/bambukouk

[darnthedog]

Thanks for the advice and info. To answer a couple questions.

I have been riding since May and can torq 300 lbs with a leg lift for short durations. I am getting old used to bench 600lbs. And have been through 2 sets of pedals while pushing 18 to 22 mph ( my present top speed so far) but usually just cruise along at 14 to 15 mph with a 15 year old modified Wally World bike. Also I am traveling on flat terrain. The biggest hill is 5 foot elevation so the bigger tires should not give me too much trouble. I don't plan to travel cross country on this, just to work 4.5 miles and back 4 days a week via side roads and bike paths.

As to a 2 wheeler verse a 3 wheeler- My balance is not what it used to be and getting on and off the bike is no fun anymore. The 3 wheeler allows me to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

The idea of using 2 center pull brakes on rear was not to eliminate the front but to increase to a total of 3 brakes similar to what the Street Fox uses. 2 in back and 1 in front. The Front brake usual takes 90% of the braking force in the energy studies I have read. So I definitely will have a front brake.

As to using a disc brake verse a center pull or cantilever, I have the cantilever and center pull brakes in possession, I have not found a Disc Brake unit yet, Still scrounging at garage sale and Goodwill. Have avoided buying new bike parts with the exception of the hub adapter to speed up the build. I will get new tires and spokes as the ones I have are already corroded or dry rotted. Most bikes I have paid less than $10 buck and got 4 of them from scrap piles for free. With new tools old bike and plans I have spent roughly $100 so far. Would like to keep the budget under $500.00

If I can find the camera I will be taking pictures and starting a new thread. I got the rear cut with a borrowed miter saw and the pieces almost meld to the perfect fit. Now to take the extra pieces I cut up and practice the welding with the flux wire welder I bought for an EV project that has been put on hold. I am still learning to weld as it were.

As to Airjnk comment on the small wheel issue. I have a question how did your EZ ride before the hub motor was installed? I took a short ride in a parking lot with a similar model and it seemed ok then to me. And kind of gave me the thought to do it in the first place. However without a longer distance maybe I missed something. I may try it and as I built it myself I can always cut it off and change to to a bigger wheel and report the issue. The greatest thing about these is you can say you built it yourself. And you can fix anything on it.

Again thanks for the comments. Time to go weld a bit.

[greenevegiebeast]

Dave made most of my points for my, the steering could be very twitchy, the ride would be very harsh. a 26 inch wheel also has less roling restance while the diffrance may be minute, then we are talking about three wheels on a limited amount of power. it all adds up.

Im building a DR for confort , comuting and to carry my lard ass. so my priorties may be fifrent, im looking for stregnth, easy riding, and confort.

[macka]

short rides never give the best feel for the bike. After a while a bump and shuffle of the smaller wheels will tell on your body. I suppose if you had a suspended front it would be a better ride, but someone would have to test it to see.

[airjnke]

"As to Airjnk comment on the small wheel issue. I have a question how did your EZ ride before the hub motor was installed?"
Since the total weight was less & no drag of the hub motor the actual pedaling was much easier. But as far as the quality of the ride on the road with the smaller dia. wheels, it sucked, hub motor or not. You might notice Sun's newer bikes have the larger dia. wheels.
Take it EZ;
Dave

[TheKid]

As you push the bulk of the weight to the rear, more braking force is required of the rear brakes. I had a lot of the weight on my quad toward the rear, and it was noticeable that the rear brakes took a lot of braking forces. I had center pull brakes on all four wheels. Using only the front brakes, or only the rear brakes, the quad stopped adequately. Using all four more than doubled the efficiency. However, it wasn't until I mounted the rear brakes as far back as possible that they worked well. I have a single disc brake on the rear of the DR, which I find is a little better than the two center pull brakes on the quad, but the DR is much lighter in weight. If all you have is cnter pulls for the rear, then use them. If they turn out to be inadequate, you could always install a disc brake later. I would however, test them thoroughly before painting the frame to save a lot of work and some paint later. I have a 26" wheel on the DR, but I had 20" wheels on other deltas. I think the 20" wheels handle a bit better, but the 26" wheel gives a smoother ride. Again, you may want to experiment with the front wheels before the final build if possible.