Ok,, Here we go.

[cyclesaver]

Greetings to all the Zombies. I parked my bike about 40 years ago and moved on to less strenuous means of haulin my butt around. But the doctor said I have reached a point in my journey through life that I should get serious about some exercise or my journey may not be as long as I might like it to be. So a few months ago, I started to collect junk bikes to make,,, something,, and searching on the net one day a while back, stumbled on this site. The more I looked, the more I liked. I figured, here are a group of people that like to swim against the current and create works of art, while still being frugal. So, Today, we start. I have bought the plans for the Delta Runner and the Kyoto Cruiser. I will make the Runner first to get my feet wet. I ordered up some steel and got it home. I am a machine repairman for one of the big 3 auto companys,,, or was when times were a bit better, anyway, I contacted one of the vendors that we get our bearings from and got a price for 4, 5/8's pillow blocks and was just planning on going over there to pick em up. But at a price of over $33 each,,, I shifted gears and went online to the place you guys go to, ( The Big Bearing Store ) and will go with theirs. I have the back part of the frame done and now am at a stand still till I get the bearings. So I went out to the pole barn to look at what bikes will give up their wheels, and after reading in the plans that steel rims are pretty much obsolete, and low and behold, those are pretty much the ones I have. except for a couple of them, but they hold such skinny tires. They are probably not what I want on the rear of the runner ? I went to the site, Bike Stop,, I think,,,,and I had NO idea there were so many rims to be had,,, not to say anything about the varations in prices. So I guess the question I have now is, What should I be looking for in a couple of rims for the rear of the Runner ?

[Trailblazzzzzer]

Hey, Welcome
Great progress on your project.
I escaped Detroit 2 years ago
because of the Pig 3.
I found good work and great folks here in Kentucky.
Will be heading back up to Detroit Friday to see family and pick up bike parts.
Check out Cycleworks if you are ever in Clawson, MI
Great bunch of guys.
Good luck on your build...
... this is gonna be fun
Davo

[John Lewis]

Hello cyclesaver,

Welcome to the madhouse. This hobby is addictive. Once started you can never stop.

You ask about wheels. I used cheap single wall replacement wheels for my Wolf. I would have preferred double wall rims for strength. Mine are about an inch wide.

What's the machine in your pic? Looks like a big old mill or maybe a shaper.

Your build looks to be coming along well.

John Lewis

[cyclesaver]

Hi John. On the site I looked at for wheels, I see they had em starting for just a few bucks,,, like $5 or $6, and they ran up to some that equaled the gross national product of Zimbabwe. Biking sure has come along way since I used to peddle down the roads as a kid. I guess I am just not sure on what size to ask for. Oh,,and the machine you see is a Bridgeport "knock off". The plant I worked at is closing down, and I knew I was going to be getting laid off for a while. When I was at work, I had access to all the machine tools in the shop, and as long as nothing broke on the line, I had ample time to fool around in the machine shop, so I ended up making my self a lot of items,, But If I got laid off,, no more machine shop. So I went out and bought myself an old lathe and mill from Craigs list and brought em home, so I can continue to play. They sure do come in handy

[KoolKat]

Welcome to our world. Glad you found us!

[SirJoey]

Hey CS, looks like you're off to a good start.

Ooooh, a mill AND a lathe... I'm soooo jealous.
(Retired journeyman machinist here)

Welcome to the Krew! :)

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9206/signaturehalloweenvr0.jpg

[greenevegiebeast]

I keep getting the feeling of dejavue. that frame looks fermilar.:D

nice build:D

[SirJoey]

I keep getting the feeling of dejavue. that frame looks fermilar.

Yeah, I think he just copied your pic & re-posted it as his own! ;)


http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9206/signaturehalloweenvr0.jpg

[cyclesaver]

Well ya know what they say,,, " Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". But I am at a stand still now,, waiting for the bearings, and today I also went to ebay and bought the 2 complete sets of disk brake set ups, for an offer of $70. Thanks to Trailblazzzzzer mentioning it on the DeltaWolf part of the forum. I stopped at the Local WalMart this morning to check out their bikes,, Some body mentioned that they were selling a trail bike with duel disk brakes for about $199. But they had NO such bikes there,, actually they did not have any with even one disk brake on them. I took a small magnet with me and checked the wheels,,, I thought I heard that steel wheels were pretty much on their way out ? Almost all the wheels I checked there,, the magnet stuck. But it looks like the wheels will be my big sticking point now. With out them,, not too much can happen.

[ditz]

There is nothing wrong with steel wheels. I would guess that millions of miles have been ridden on them. The alloy wheels are lighter, somewhat stronger, and they stop better especially when wet. You pays your money so you make the choice. The old 26" wheels are limited to 1 3/8" min. width and there are not much choice of quality. The 27" wheels have tires down to 7/8" wide and higher pressure available. To me, the 27" are more desireable. 700c wheels are the most desireable because the tire choice is much more varied in size, pressure, and quality. Of course the price goes up with the quality.

Good luck with your build.

ditz

[TheKid]

With disc brakes, stopping is not an issue with steel wheels. They are a bit heavier, and are prone to rusting. Cheap bikes still have them. Wallyworld has bikes with disc brakes online, but the one for $199 must have been an in-store special, because online it's still $299.

[Sparky]

i would stick with 26 inch mountian bike wheels. thin road wheels of any size have much less lateral strenght. meaning if you clip a curb or somesuch, you will have a bent rim.

cheap mtn bike wheels bend too, but not as easily as the thinner ones. IMO, the only reason you would go with skinnier wheels would be wind resistance and drag, but i feel that smooth cruiser tires (even wide ones) arent bad in that respect. its the knobbies that suck energy on the road.

i really like bike parts usa .com for most anything they carry. i think some people have had trouble with em in the past though.

[cyclesaver]

Ok,, thanks Ditz. Thats what I have been looking for. A few pointers in the right direction to make a decent choice. Thanks again

[cyclesaver]

Yes Kid,,, I also seen that bike online for $299, I just thought I would stop this morning to see what they had before I did anything else. I never dreamed I would be thinking of buying a brand new bike to cut to pieces.. but you start to buy individual parts and the prices can go up faster then you realise. Oh well, they didn't have it,, so its back to scrounging. Thanks for your thoughts Kid and also Sparky. It never hurts to hear several opinions before ya start to toss the ol' bank roll at a problem.

[TheKid]

I found the donor for my Streetfox and DR in someone's trash. You could look in second hand shops or craigslist for good buy. Most of the wheels, handlebars, freewheels, shifters, and brake levers I have came from donors out of the trash or craigslist.

[KoolKat]

Also auctions, yard sales and estate sales. Local charity collection depots that are supposed to only accept clothing end up with a lot of stuff that they don't want, and have to pay someone to haul the stuff to the landfill, plus pay the dumping fees. They do get a lot of junk that they can't sell, but can be recycled into many homebuilt bike projects. It would be worth connecting with some of these collection depots and let them know you might be interested in some of their unwanted bikes and parts.

[greenevegiebeast]

Kat is on the right track, I know the local University has ab abual auction for surplus and lost objects. The monthe before they clear all the abandon biks from all the bike racks.( Ive seen hundreds) and they auction off the junkl in lots, the whole bikes they sell through out the year for as little as 10$ each.Im goimg to get a few of the compleat bikes, then this somer when they auction off the "junk" im going to bid on it.:D

[darnthedog]

I just scored 5 bikes from a trash pile in one of my neighbors junk piles including a Next full suspension bike, I have collected a few from friends that had yard sale left overs and a couple from Goodwill. Talk about your project to friends family and neighbors in conversation. You never know what they might have lurking in the back of a shed wanting to toss your way. I have not got all all used parts, but the new parts were something I couldn't find like a disc brake for the Delta runner I am just starting on. Or didn't trust like chain and cables tires and bearings. But I got a ton of forks, head tubes, frames, cranks, freewheels and wheels of all sizes to play with till I get it right.

[cyclesaver]

I am at the point of respoking my wheels now and have a question for the group. According to the directions in the plans, the flanges were made to 2 1/2" diameter. I figured the axle of the donor bike was pretty typical and the flanges on that axle was just a bit over 2 inches. But since the new axle was wider then the old one, the difference in diameters would be cancled out by the new wider lenght, still alowing the old spokes to be used. After getting them in the holes,, I see they are now going to be too long to be used. Is there a structural reason that the flanges were made larger, or should the old spokes even have been considered to be used at all ? I see you can get longer nipples then the standard 6 mm nipples, maybe those are a good idea to give a bit more adjustment leeway for the spokes ?

[John Lewis]

Hi Terry,
When I did the wheels for my Wolf I measured the spokes and rim then used a spoke length calculator to work out the size I needed to make the flanges in order to reuse the spokes.

How to do this is posted in the old forum and I know I reposted details somewhere in one of the current forums. Sorry can't recall which but a search should find it.

I guess it's a bit late for you if you've already made up the flanges.

John Lewis

[cyclesaver]

Yep, John,,, too late for me,, hahaha,, but I do remember seeing it mentioned in a post. I did not read it, but I thought it was for determining the lenght of the spokes,, never thought about using it to find the diameters of the flanges,,, oh well,, when ya make a mistake and it cost ya cash from the hip,, ya seem to remember those mistakes and most of the time, ya do not make them again.
But I do have a question for down the road, when I build the Kyoto cruiser. It has 20 inche wheels on it,, is there a reason that you cannot or should not build it with 26 wheels ? It seems that it would move a bit faster with larger wheels on it. Not that I am thinking of a racing bike or anything like that, but just a few mph faster with the same amount of leg work is not a bad thing. Perhaps it has to do with side loading and the larger payload that bike will be carrying ? Where I live, its pretty rural and not a lot of paved bike paths or curbs to worry about.

[klocwerk]

Yep, John,,, too late for me,, hahaha,, but I do remember seeing it mentioned in a post. I did not read it, but I thought it was for determining the lenght of the spokes,, never thought about using it to find the diameters of the flanges,,, oh well,, when ya make a mistake and it cost ya cash from the hip,, ya seem to remember those mistakes and most of the time, ya do not make them again.
But I do have a question for down the road, when I build the Kyoto cruiser. It has 20 inche wheels on it,, is there a reason that you cannot or should not build it with 26 wheels ? It seems that it would move a bit faster with larger wheels on it. Not that I am thinking of a racing bike or anything like that, but just a few mph faster with the same amount of leg work is not a bad thing. Perhaps it has to do with side loading and the larger payload that bike will be carrying ? Where I live, its pretty rural and not a lot of paved bike paths or curbs to worry about.


Check out the deltawolf plans, which are designed to use 26" wheels.
There's not a huge difference between the two projects except that the backend of the DW is angled so that it rides lower, and it has 26" rears and a 20" front instead of 24s all around. There are some structural changes to the wheels in order to handle lateral weight at 26" diameter, but I don't think Brad would like me giving away all his plan details. :D

[jimFPU]

Check out the deltawolf plans, which are designed to use 26" wheels.
There's not a huge difference between the two projects except that the backend of the DW is angled so that it rides lower, and it has 26" rears and a 20" front instead of 24s all around. There are some structural changes to the wheels in order to handle lateral weight at 26" diameter, but I don't think Brad would like me giving away all his plan details. :DThere is really no secret...just look through the DW threads and you'll find the answer.

[cyclesaver]

Thanks for the reply, Klocwerk. I am not sure if I am missing something here, but I was not talking about the DW, I was talking about the Kyoto Cruiser and changing that bike to one with 26 inch wheels. I have bought the plans for both bikes (Cruiser & Delta Runner). I was just wondering if the added weight of 2 riders would be too much for the 26 inch wheels,, but seems that they make tandems with 26 inch wheels, so I just raised the question of why not 26 inch wheels on a cruiser ? If I missunderstood your reply, I am sorry.

[SirJoey]

CS, the difference in a regular tandem, is that you lean in the corners & curves,
so there's no lateral stress on the wheels, unlike a trike!


http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9206/signaturehalloweenvr0.jpg

[cyclesaver]

Hi Joey,, thanks,,, I can understand that thinking, and see what you mean. But if the Cruiser is not drivin like a slot car,, then ya think the 26 inch wheels would be fine on that also,, since they are wider like the Wolf and Runner's hubs are to build up the strenght, Verses the standard hub width ?

[SirJoey]

Hi Joey,, thanks,,, I can understand that thinking, and see what you mean. But if the Cruiser is not drivin like a slot car,, then ya think the 26 inch wheels would be fine on that also,, since they are wider like the Wolf and Runner's hubs are to build up the strenght, Verses the standard hub width ?

Well, my personal thinking is that yeah, with the wider hubs, they'd be okay,
as long as you're not ripping around curves & corners like a madman,
but then, I'm not the one designing these things, so I don't know for sure,
considering you have twice the human weight, plus the possibility of cargo...

...better ask AZ on this one. :)

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9206/signaturehalloweenvr0.jpg

[cyclesaver]

thanks Joey,, I am currently waiting for the spokes to get here so I can get back to work on the Runner,, so I am just killing time with this question on the wheels for the Cruiser, I figure I will not get to that bike till spring or next summer. But as always, I appreciate yours and others input

[AtomicZombie]

If you choose a good 2x wall 36 hole rim and heavy spokes, you will be fine using 26 inch rims on the KC as long as....

- You use the wider flange design like the DeltaWolf.
- Total rider weight is not higher than 350 pounds.

Also, because of the extra mechanical advantage at the axle, use a 3/4 inch axle, not the 5/8 diameter.

Those bargain style utility cart wheels with the heavy spokes will NOT hold up, just in case you were looking at those as an option.

Brad

[klocwerk]

Thanks for the reply, Klocwerk. I am not sure if I am missing something here, but I was not talking about the DW, I was talking about the Kyoto Cruiser and changing that bike to one with 26 inch wheels. I have bought the plans for both bikes (Cruiser & Delta Runner). I was just wondering if the added weight of 2 riders would be too much for the 26 inch wheels,, but seems that they make tandems with 26 inch wheels, so I just raised the question of why not 26 inch wheels on a cruiser ? If I missunderstood your reply, I am sorry.

AH, sorry. I was addressing the side loading. Trikes don't lean so a lot more force goes into side loading than on a 2-wheeled bike.
As for simple vertical strength, any standard spoked wheel really shouldn't have much trouble on a Cruiser. :cool:

[cyclesaver]

I appreciate your reply, Brad. When I got to that bike, I was figuring on buying good rims and your plans already called for 3/4 axle diameter, ( Which I already have bought). But now I am currious, there must be a point that the width of the wheel hub can reach that the strenght peaks,,and then starts to get weaker again ? I just took a good look at your plans for the Cruiser and realised you kept the hubs the same width as the orgional wheels. Since I have made nothing yet. would it do any good to make them a bit wider then 3.5 inches for increased strenght ?

[AtomicZombie]

Any wider and it will not have much effect beside making it difficult to find spokes.

The Kyoto and LodeRunner kept the original width because with a 20 inch rim and 48 spokes, you are already bullet proof.

Brad

[cyclesaver]

ok, thanks for the knowledge, Brad.

[cyclesaver]

Well the spokes came yesterday and I got the wheels put together last night. Trued em up today and installed em in the frame so I can see how wide it will be. This afternoon I took a ride into town and went to the Home Depot store and got a couple of sticks of 1/2 & 3/4" conduit. I want to try my hand at making one of those custom tube framed seats with a mesh covering. I got the conduit ok, but when I showed em a picture of the seat, nobody there could think of any material that they sold that would work for the mesh part. One guy said to try the JoAnn Frabrics store right down the street. I did but struck out there also. So the search goes on for that mesh.

( I am trying to post a picture, but am having trouble getting it to upload. ??? I get a message that says, " Exceeds you quota by 9.8 KB" Its just one picture shot with a low resiloution camera. How can it be too large ? )

[Locutus]

Cyclesaver,
Try Quest Outfitters.

http://www.questoutfitters.com/

[John Lewis]

Seat mesh material:

Take a look at the recent posts in General Building Tips and Tricks... Question about recumbent seats.

My mesh is the kind used on outdoor furniture and I got it from an upholsterer.

John Lewis

[trikeman]

Many members have found a mesh called "Pet Screen" at Home Depot or Ace Hardware. I think it is made from something called Phifertex. In my case, I used a similar material that was from an old canopy my wife used to create shade at dog agility trials. If you search the old forum for "mesh seat" you will find 3 pages of threads talking about mesh seats in some way. Some patience is required to search the old forum (takes a few minutes to return the results, but worth it).

Here is the company that makes Phifertex

http://www.phifer.com/Consumer.aspx

[cyclesaver]

Ok, thanks guys for the replys on the mesh,, I will go back to Home Depot again, but this time with the name,, maybe that will help narrow it down, if not off to the Hardware store in town. I borrowed a conduit bender from one of my cousins and after a quick lesson on how to use it. The frame is about done. It is coming out very nice. So that mesh will be needed pretty soon.

[cyclesaver]

Got the seat frame cut down to a more realistic size. Some how the back rest was way too tall,, anyway its ready now for its cover and get mounted to the frame, so i can get started on the front end

http://http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr290/visteonguy/IM003501.jpg

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr290/visteonguy/IM003503.jpg

[cyclesaver]

maybe the back rest is still a bit too tall,, I guess it can be modified later on if it turns out that it would be better if it was shorter...

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr290/visteonguy/IM003501.jpg

[TheKid]

Excellent job so far.

[Radical Brad]

Looks twice as comfy as the chair in the livingroom!

Brad

[Pagan Wizard]

Looking good so far. I like the high back on the seat, if it is high enough, and shaped properly, it could eliminate the need for a headrest.

[KoolKat]

You might not want it too high, though. Not good for the neck if your head is bouncing off of the seatback. We know this to be true!

[cyclesaver]

Thanks, thats a good point, Kat. I was also thinking it may be a bit hard to see what was coming up behind me on the road. I guess I will have to sting it up with mesh and see just exactly where my head will end up, and then go from there.