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MoeMac
01-18-2009, 03:32 PM
Hi all...

I had started a post in an other section and realized that it should be here... Last week I started a new Project (Bike No. 9)... I fell in love with the StreetFox when I first saw it... I purchased the plans a few months ago...

I did not wanted to purchase more parts as I have a dungeon(old basement) full... so I wanted to use them up before I bring in more doners!

So this is what I am going to put together. Take One Teen Pacific Coast Chopper Cruiser:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/PC_Teen.jpg

and Two Kiddy Pacific Chopper Cruiser:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/PC_Kid.jpg

And hopefully create a Low StreetFox Chopper Cruiser Bike!
:punk::punk::punk:

MoeMac
01-18-2009, 03:37 PM
They have a nice heavy phat 16"x3" rear wheel and a 20"x2" front wheel:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF01.jpg

After cutting and grinding this is what I want:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF02.jpg

Now that rear 16"x3" needs to be a front wheel:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF03.jpg

I took the inside out!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF04.jpg

The gear and the brake lever:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF05.jpg

Removing the gear was easy!! it was held together with a ring. A little flathead screwdriver was all it took to slip it out by running it from one end to about the middle:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF06.jpg

to be continued...

MoeMac
01-18-2009, 03:40 PM
Removing the brake arm was not easy!!! I deducted it was bolted together by this Huge Samuri Wrestler with a pipe that was about 10 feet long because the amount of torque that is behind that bolt! :mad:

So at the risk of damaging it I cut it off and grind it round to match its other side:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF07.jpg

Now I have an AWESOME Heavy Phat 16"x3" Front Wheel!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF08.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF09.jpg

Now this is what I want my 2 front wheels to be on my StreetFox!!!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF10.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SF11.jpg

TADA!!! More to Come!

MoeMac
01-18-2009, 03:51 PM
After reading the instruction for the "Axle and Mounting Tabs" I remember a voice inside my head saying "What????? just sec... WHAT????" and I thought... nope not for me... bad eye sight.... need something more simpler and easier without a university degree.... the angle thing by eye sight and tacking, breaking, tacking ect...

So after thinking long and hard... (YIKES!).... I took a 2"x1" angle iron and came up with this:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SFFE01.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SFFE02.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SFFE03.jpg

Now I got to do the other wheel....:confused::rolleyes4:

Until next step...:scooter:

rickairmed
01-18-2009, 03:54 PM
Moe lookin good one thing I will point you to is when you go to mount your headtubes you are going to want to get them as close to the inner axles as posssible.Ok I just saw your new pics you were already on the right track :D.


Rick

rickairmed
01-18-2009, 06:53 PM
Moe I did look at one thing on your frontend and I think it might help to put a gusset under the headtube just to keep it from bending back on itself. There will be alot of stress on it at that point the gusset will help transfer the load .


Rick

MoeMac
01-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Moe I did look at one thing on your frontend and I think it might help to put a gusset under the headtube just to keep it from bending back on itself. There will be alot of stress on it at that point the gusset will help transfer the load .


Rick

Hi Rick...

Thank You for your observation... can you tell me what is a guesset?? and how and where would I place it? :confused:

rickairmed
01-18-2009, 11:35 PM
Moe a gusset is usually just a triangle of metal in the case of your front end I would place it below where you welded the headtube on just behind where the axle slides in. Make it a long triangle with the shortside against the bottom of the headtube bracket and one of the longsides against the frame right at the end of the axle slot.This will spread out the load a little and make for a stronger assembly.


Rick

MoeMac
01-19-2009, 12:20 PM
Moe a gusset is usually just a triangle of metal in the case of your front end I would place it below where you welded the headtube on just behind where the axle slides in. Make it a long triangle with the shortside against the bottom of the headtube bracket and one of the longsides against the frame right at the end of the axle slot.This will spread out the load a little and make for a stronger assembly.


Rick

Oh.... OK... But the frame that surrounds the tire will not have any support at all so it would not be anypurpose to have a gusset there...It is mainly used to support the front brakes and a fender... I plan to do a triangle to the top of the headtube as the bottom will be either an angle to the main tube or a straight to the main tube.. Not sure yet which one to use.... The origional plan is an angle but he used square pipe... I am not found of the square pipe at all I do not find it attracktive... I like the round pipe more....

I am goint to be using 1 1/2" and 1 1/4" Conduit Pipes....

Well... It is off to the dungeon I go (the Basement)... I want to accomplish doing the other front wheel and the rear end today...

The cold spell has finally broken here in the Maritimes! It is very mild and raining YiPee!! White Stuff GO AWAY!!! :scooter:

rickairmed
01-19-2009, 12:31 PM
Moe heres wha I was talking about with the gusset I think a picture might explain it better.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34681559@N05/3222702049/


Rick

MoeMac
01-19-2009, 12:58 PM
Moe heres wha I was talking about with the gusset I think a picture might explain it better.


Rick

PERFECT!!!! Thanks Rick.... I shall to that!!!!!!!!! Fantastic!!!! I was thinking over on the side by the frame and never underneith! like you pointed out!

I am overwelmed with gratitude for the time that you took to care enough to show me... It makes this first project much more FUN to build when there is someone who has made a difference by carring!

My brother and I are big on Carring!
:sunny:

rickairmed
01-19-2009, 01:36 PM
Moe not a problem thats what we are here for to drool over each others projects and help each other on our projects :D. I figured I might not have explained it with words that well and it only took me a couple seconds to do a dirty paint rendition of what I was talking about . I personally cant wait to see a chopped out Tadpole :D.

Rick

macka
01-19-2009, 02:24 PM
Moe,

where did you score those tires from? I've been looking for skins like that for a while.

MoeMac
01-19-2009, 09:11 PM
Moe not a problem thats what we are here for to drool over each others projects and help each other on our projects :D. I figured I might not have explained it with words that well and it only took me a couple seconds to do a dirty paint rendition of what I was talking about . I personally cant wait to see a chopped out Tadpole :D.

Rick

Well... Rick... You might be in for a treat! cause that is what I am building!! and it is comming along GREAT! I am going t upload the pictures of the progress within the next couple of hours... MAN oh MAN am I ever having FUN!!

I ran out of wire to weld so I had to put in a new roll for the first time... YIKES! as soon as I took the plastic off the wire wet NUTS!! Wasted an 1 1/2 just to get that samn roll in the welder!! That's what you get with no instruction manual! Bought the welder secondhand... But I now know what not to do!! :rockstar:

be back!

MoeMac
01-19-2009, 09:14 PM
Moe,

where did you score those tires from? I've been looking for skins like that for a while.

Hey Macka!

If you scroll down to the very first message of this thread you will see where I got those skins from... it came with the wheels on those kiddy and teens Pacific Coast Choppers...

This StreetFox that I am building is going to be a Chopper Cruiser and I am thinking of naming it "The FoxCruiser" kool?? :punk:

rickairmed
01-19-2009, 09:15 PM
LOL Moe been there done that amazing how fast that wire can spin off that reel when you are not ready for it :D. Looking forward to your pics doing a little cleanup and final fitup on my Babyfox today myself.

Rick

MoeMac
01-19-2009, 09:36 PM
OK... this is what I have been doing today..

First here are the doners!! I wanted to have my StreetCruiser with rear shocks so I got this doner bike for that!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/RearDoner.jpg

Now to keep in balance with the phat ass 16" front wheels and tires I had to sacrafice to the Bike ***! this puppy!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/RearDoner2.jpg

Now here are the following parts that I took from my doners:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/RE001.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/RE003.jpg

Now out of the first doner I chopped this to use as the main shock controler arm:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/RE002.jpg

Then I created this:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/RE004.jpg

TADA!!!

SirJoey
01-19-2009, 09:45 PM
Dude, that is one scary lookin' place to work!
It really DOES look like a dungeon! :eek:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

MoeMac
01-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Dude, that is one scary lookin' place to work!
It really DOES look like a dungeon! :eek:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

LOL!!! Sure is!! but it has been good to me... I cannot aford a house or a garage all I can afford is an apartment and there are not too many aprtment building that would allow me to build my bikes... So far I have built 8 and this one is my nineth one... I have kept all of them so far...

In some places of the dungeon I have to bend down otherwise I hit my head! Also the furnace and the oil tank is not far... :alien:

But I am a very cautious builder... there are 5 other tenant in the building and they accept me working in the basement as I do not cause too much trouble...

The landlord says: "Moe could be worst! he could be an alcoholic or a dope head... so building bikes keeps Moe out of trouble... His bikes are AWESOME" That is what he tells others... I have been living here for 5 years now...

MoeMac
01-19-2009, 10:53 PM
Well... this is the main tube. I got a 1 1/2" conduit pipe and that piece from the first doner:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/MainTube01.jpg

I will be keeping the lengh of that piece to give it strengh:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/MainTube02.jpg

After grinding and welding:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/MainTube03.jpg

Now to pute the rear end to the Main Tube:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/MainTube04.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/MainTube05.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/MainTube06.jpg

rickairmed
01-19-2009, 10:55 PM
Moe I better get to work you are onna be done with that one before I get the Babyfox done if I dont step it up :D. Your appartment sounds like one I lived in for about 5 years cause I couldnt find a better deal . I had a tiny 1 bedroom apartment with a 4 car garage below it . I usually had the garage full of cars and one or two parked outside at the time . There are days now that I own another house when I miss that little apartment and huge garage .

Rick

TheKid
01-19-2009, 11:57 PM
That basement looks like it was built in the 1800's, with doug fir lumber for beefing up, maybe in the 1950's, and some 1920's blocks that were used during an alteration or repair.

moejosteve
01-20-2009, 01:38 AM
Moe I better get to work you are onna be done with that one before I get the Babyfox done if I dont step it up :D. Your appartment sounds like one I lived in for about 5 years cause I couldnt find a better deal . I had a tiny 1 bedroom apartment with a 4 car garage below it . I usually had the garage full of cars and one or two parked outside at the time . There are days now that I own another house when I miss that little apartment and huge garage .

Rick

I can relate Rick! I had this killer one-BR apt in Austin with an attached garage, then I rented the garage next to mine that opened into the breezway. I had the entire ground floor! A great couple lived above the garages, and as it turned out, they were both hearing impared! I was building and racing sports cars at the time and hacked, ground, hammered, welded, and generally made smoke and sparks till all hours of the night with no worries (other than the occasional oil rag fire)!

Of course it was no dungeon, but I made due.:punk:

MoeMac
01-20-2009, 01:23 PM
That basement looks like it was built in the 1800's, with doug fir lumber for beefing up, maybe in the 1950's, and some 1920's blocks that were used during an alteration or repair.

Yep for sure!! But it is all that I have and without it I never would have been able to build any bikes at all... I have no house, no land, no car, no loans, no money :rolleyes4: but I am so happy with my bikes!!! Just whished I lived in a part of the world where there would be no snow... I do not mind the cold as I have riden in below freezing .. It is this damn white shyte! ARGH :mad:

The weather is getting crazier every year! Last year this white YUK stayed way into late may and july rained! so needless to say there was not much cycling days!

Peopla should smarted up and stop purchasing so many cars!! We need to be more like Europe and have more cycling! We are killing the earth... but they do not care... leave it to the next generation to deal with it!

I do not know.... I have lived here in my home city for 52 years now and in these last 4 years it has gone downhill with the mass growth of vehicles and people with bad attitudes! People do not seem to care anymore... too much stress...

Where are the WALTONS???? probably hiding in their Mountains! Can not say I blame them!

Hey Moe??? Bad day??? :dunce2:
Na.... it's the snow thing...

MoeMac
01-20-2009, 01:32 PM
Hey All...

The support from yous has been awesome!

I have been awake for the most part of the evening trying to think on how I am going to do a special MOD for my StreetCruiser that I am building... Here is the delima:

As you all have noticed I and limited in space and my dungeon is all that I have... I love the way my StreetCruiser is shaping up but I will be face with a Major Problem when it will be done! The carrying up and down for storage...

There is no way that I am going to keep this puppy out as I do not with my other bikes.... So I need to bring it in and taking it out...

I have figured it out what I wanted to do... I want to have the front independent from the main tube.. so I can take it apart within secs and carry it downstairs or up...

In my mind I have it all figured out to the part of mounting and unmounting... What I mean is the front will be independent from the Main Tube... the stearing and front brakes... that is it.... I need something rigged up for me to undo the front quick to bring it in... and to put it together quick and most important SECURE to handle the ride....

Does anyone have any ideas with pictures?? or have seen something on a tadpole that has that?

Thanks a million...

MoeMac
01-20-2009, 01:40 PM
I have found this... It looks good and it looks like muffler clamps which would be perfect for me because I am using 1 1/2" round tubing...
http://www.actionbent.com/Images/T1Trike/an/10000012.jpg

What you think guys?

I will work out a rear brake lever or pedal on the Main Tube....

rickairmed
01-20-2009, 01:47 PM
Moe I was thinking you could use a couple of 1 &1/2" exhaust couplers from an autoparts store . Weld them to the maintube at the 22* angle they need to be at by the plans then make your axle tubes so they would slip into those couplers . Drill a hole through the couplers and axle tubes and bolt them together with wingnuts so you could take it apart easy maybe even use wing nuts on your steering rod so it would be easy to remove.

Rick

Locutus
01-20-2009, 03:40 PM
Moe, that's an ActionBent trike. That's a two-guy operation out of Redmond, WA USA, but the trikes are built in Taiwan. They only sell complete bikes and trikes and will not sell frames or other parts unless it is for repair/maintenance of one you have already bought. I had the rare opportunity to test drive one recently. They normally do not allow this but they had one with a minor defect that they let me try. The frames on these are very lightweight aluminum and appear well made, but more fragile than steel. I got about 20 feet on my test ride and then shifted--too much--because the rear derailleur got caught on the spokes, which bent it. There is no guard at the base of the cassette to prevent this from happening, but that's an easy mod. The whole trike weighs less than 40 pounds. The seat is very comfortable and I wish they would sell those.

Over all, I'd say it's a well-made machine, but must be treated with care, and is a good value for the money. However, I think their after-purchase customer support needs a quantum leap in improvement before I'd buy anything from them. If I were to buy, rather than build, I think I'd probably go to utahtrikes.com instead for this reason.

rickairmed
01-20-2009, 03:47 PM
Locutus Moe isnt buying a tadpole he is building one and was looking for ideas to be able to remove the front suspension crossbrace in order to make it easier to move the trike up and down stairs.


Rick

Locutus
01-20-2009, 04:16 PM
Locutus Moe isnt buying a tadpole he is building one and was looking for ideas to be able to remove the front suspension crossbrace in order to make it easier to move the trike up and down stairs.


Rick

I figured that but thought he might be looking at the ActionBent with the idea of buying some frame parts to help with his build. That's why I pointed out that they don't sell parts. The AB trike has a two-piece cast aluminum unit that bolts the crossmember and boom together with four shoulder screws. That would be pretty handy if only they'd sell them.

MoeMac
01-20-2009, 04:47 PM
I figured that but thought he might be looking at the ActionBent with the idea of buying some frame parts to help with his build. That's why I pointed out that they don't sell parts. The AB trike has a two-piece cast aluminum unit that bolts the crossmember and boom together with four shoulder screws. That would be pretty handy if only they'd sell them.

Thanks Loc... and Rick is right... I was not looking to purchase but you cleared it Loc.. I saw the AB and rightaway I tought about the Muffler Clamps... I could weld the parts on the tubes and just clamp them as Rick mentioned with some sort of fast nuts...

An other thing occured to me... The Chain... I would have to put the stearing tube on the top and the Main Tube on the bottom... My origional plan was the reverse giving more strengh to the main tube...

With me the best way is to work with it rather than use my imafination... In my mind it looks GREAT but in real life it could be a flop....

I need to make this work as I do not have a same level storage to drive it in...

THANKS Guys!

rickairmed
01-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Moe thats why I said to use the exhaust pipe couplers they are made so that 1&1/2" exhust tube will slide into them . I would weld them to the sides of your main beam at 22* so that your steering beam would actually be 2 pieces slid into the couplers from either side of the main beam which would leave the intgrity of your main beam intact. I am sure it would take alot of work to fishmouth them to get them to fit right but I think that would be an easy answer to your problem and also fairly cheap the couplers are only a couple bucks each.

Rick

MoeMac
01-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Moe thats why I said to use the exhaust pipe couplers they are made so that 1&1/2" exhust tube will slide into them . I would weld them to the sides of your main beam at 22* so that your steering beam would actually be 2 pieces slid into the couplers from either side of the main beam which would leave the intgrity of your main beam intact. I am sure it would take alot of work to fishmouth them to get them to fit right but I think that would be an easy answer to your problem and also fairly cheap the couplers are only a couple bucks each.

Rick

Thanks Rick... Your input is always grately appriciated but again I am having a hard time to visulizing it... the thing of having the stearing in 2 pieces would be great but not easy because I will also have the cross piece connecting the 2 wheels for the stearing .. (the piece that has the ball joint rod)..

I was thinking of one peice and leaving the ball rod end cross peice attached...

But the Muffler thing is so far the better cheeper and fastest solution... I will need to work with it and figure a way that the chain would not be in the way as a rule the top chain over the top and the bottom over the bottom... I do hope that you know what I just typed??? :confused:

Your support is by far the best!
Thanks!

rickairmed
01-20-2009, 08:51 PM
I understood the chain thing Moe what I am visualising is welding the exhaust couplers to the sides of your main tube . You could either use wingnuts to hold on the steering rod balljoints so you could remove them with no tools or use the ones like Richie Rich used on his Quadmod . ( Look under the delta wolf thread ) for his quad mod he has a video link in his thread that shows the easy off tierod ends . With the tierod removable you would have 3 pieces for the front end the rightside steering beam would slide into the exhaust coupler ( a piece of tubing that the 1&1/2" tubing you have would slip into ) with a through bolt holding it in place . The left side would slip into the exhaust coupler you welder to the left side of the main beam and again use a bolt that went through the coupler and left side steering beam . This would mean at least 2 trips into the basement with the trike one with the left and right side steering beams and another with your tierod and mainbeam/rearend assembly. I could probably do a drawingg in Crayon2.0 if it would help I dont have a program on my laptop to do a 3D rendering . With this setup it wouldnt matter how you routed your chain since the left and right sides would come off seperate.


Rick

MoeMac
01-20-2009, 09:54 PM
I understood the chain thing Moe what I am visualising is welding the exhaust couplers to the sides of your main tube . You could either use wingnuts to hold on the steering rod balljoints so you could remove them with no tools or use the ones like Richie Rich used on his Quadmod . ( Look under the delta wolf thread ) for his quad mod he has a video link in his thread that shows the easy off tierod ends . With the tierod removable you would have 3 pieces for the front end the rightside steering beam would slide into the exhaust coupler ( a piece of tubing that the 1&1/2" tubing you have would slip into ) with a through bolt holding it in place . The left side would slip into the exhaust coupler you welder to the left side of the main beam and again use a bolt that went through the coupler and left side steering beam . This would mean at least 2 trips into the basement with the trike one with the left and right side steering beams and another with your tierod and mainbeam/rearend assembly. I could probably do a drawingg in Crayon2.0 if it would help I dont have a program on my laptop to do a 3D rendering . With this setup it wouldnt matter how you routed your chain since the left and right sides would come off seperate.


Rick

Rick you are AWESOME!... I love the Idea of not matter with the chain! and having it in 3 pieces would be perfect!

Still having a real hard time visualizing it... How can it be solid? and hold the presure? This is why I thought a solid one pipe like the one in the AB Picture that I found...

But I LOVE YOUR IDEA BETTER! It would make storing the trike easier...

There will be a lot of presure and in my mind welding a clamp on the side would not hold that presure at the end of the pipe... unless the right pipe and the lepft pipe slide into each other somehow?

If you do that drawing perhaps It would kick in my brain? :sunny:

rickairmed
01-20-2009, 10:06 PM
Rick you are AWESOME!... I love the Idea of not matter with the chain! and having it in 3 pieces would be perfect!

Still having a real hard time visualizing it... How can it be solid? and hold the presure? This is why I thought a solid one pipe like the one in the AB Picture that I found...

But I LOVE YOUR IDEA BETTER! It would make storing the trike easier...

There will be a lot of presure and in my mind welding a clamp on the side would not hold that presure at the end of the pipe... unless the right pipe and the lepft pipe slide into each other somehow?

If you do that drawing perhaps It would kick in my brain? :sunny:

Moe not Clamps but couplers ( like a coupler you would use on copper pipe ) the coulers are sized so that the 1 & 1/2" pipe slides into them so you would simply fishmouth the couplers and weld them to the sides of your mainbeam . Then slide the left and right side steering beams into them . Then drill a hole through the couplers and steering beams that you could pt a bolt through . That would hold the steering beams in place solid until you took the bolt out and could then slide the steerring beams out and carry them off without the mainbeam. I will see what I can come up with in Crayon 2.0.


Rick

MoeMac
01-20-2009, 10:13 PM
Moe not Clamps but couplers ( like a coupler you would use on copper pipe ) the coulers are sized so that the 1 & 1/2" pipe slides into them so you would simply fishmouth the couplers and weld them to the sides of your mainbeam . Then slide the left and right side steering beams into them . Then drill a hole through the couplers and steering beams that you could pt a bolt through . That would hold the steering beams in place solid until you took the bolt out and could then slide the steerring beams out and carry them off without the mainbeam. I will see what I can come up with in Crayon 2.0.


Rick

HOLLY MACKINOFF!!!! I just got it after I watch Richie's Video on the QUAD-MOD!!! GENIUS!!!! He had a quick release bold from a Mountain Bike and after reading your last post I GOT IT!!!

A trip to Canadian Tire will get me that muffler 1 1/2" Couppler!!

GENIUS GENIUS GENIUS!!!! I bow at your feet.... I am not worthy!

This is going to be AWESOME!!!!

I must contact Richie to where he got those quick release ball joints cause there is NONE like that around here and believe me when I tell you hat I know cause I did all of Moncton trying to find some ball joint! Found some but they are not like the plans of AtomicZombie they are like Richie but they are not quick release! they are never releases...

THANKS AGAIN RICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rickairmed
01-20-2009, 10:22 PM
:D Moe I actually got how to describe it to you just a second ago myself Richies video helped . What I was going to mention was your picture where you added the maintube to the piece off of the donor bike where you slid the section of pipe from the donor bike into the maintube ( same thing only tighter fit ) . I would suggest getting 2 couplers one for each side of the maintube . That way you can fishmouth them to fit the sides of the maintube to be welded onto it and still have enough coupler left to slide your steering beams into . I will find a link to Richie's Quick release ball joints thers a couple of links on here I just have to remember where they are .

Rick

rickairmed
01-20-2009, 10:30 PM
AH got it I found the link for the quick release tierods.


http://www.midwestcontrol.com/catdisplay_short.php?pg=119


Rick

Richie Rich
01-20-2009, 11:13 PM
HOLLY MACKINOFF!!!! I just got it after I watch Richie's Video on the QUAD-MOD!!! GENIUS!!!! THANKS AGAIN RICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hi, MoeMac...I'm glad you found the video helpful. It's a technique which can be easily adapted to most bikes to make it easier for transport or storage.

As for the quick release rod ends, get the heavier units if you plan on using your trike for commuting. They'll take the road abuse better than the lighter types I use for pleasure riding.

....Richie....
.

moejosteve
01-21-2009, 03:03 AM
[QUOTE=MoeMac;17142]HOLLY MACKINOFF!!!! I just got it after I watch Richie's Video on the QUAD-MOD!!! GENIUS!!!! QUOTE]

Video? Which video? SOMEONE SEND ME THE LINK TO THE VIDEO PLEASE!:rolleyes4: I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE! I MUST SEE THE VIDEO!!!!

I need some sleep...:sleep1:

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 06:06 AM
[QUOTE=MoeMac;17142]HOLLY MACKINOFF!!!! I just got it after I watch Richie's Video on the QUAD-MOD!!! GENIUS!!!! QUOTE]

Video? Which video? SOMEONE SEND ME THE LINK TO THE VIDEO PLEASE!:rolleyes4: I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE! I MUST SEE THE VIDEO!!!!

I need some sleep...:sleep1:

Hey Mo.... here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgCaZ4-hcJ4&fmt=18

I know the feeling....

Richie YOU RULE! :punk::punk::punk:

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 06:07 AM
AH got it I found the link for the quick release tierods.


http://www.midwestcontrol.com/catdisplay_short.php?pg=119


Rick

AWESOME RICK!!! My HERO!!!

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 06:10 AM
Hi, MoeMac...I'm glad you found the video helpful. It's a technique which can be easily adapted to most bikes to make it easier for transport or storage.

As for the quick release rod ends, get the heavier units if you plan on using your trike for commuting. They'll take the road abuse better than the lighter types I use for pleasure riding.

....Richie....
.

Richie,

Can you click on the link Rick provided and give me the exact model number that you would recommend? Here in Moncton I deal with SAE and not metric so I have not a clue what size you wrote about????

I usually work with 5/16" for my ball ends... It would be grately appreciated....
THANKS....

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 06:24 AM
[QUOTE=rickairmed;17143That way you can fishmouth them to fit the sides of the maintube to be welded onto it and still have enough coupler left to slide your steering beams into .

Rick[/QUOTE]

Rick.... I never heard of this term before and I tried googling it to see any pics on this "Fishmouth" techniques? Do you have any pics to show me what a fishmouthing of pipes like you suggested?

Thanks!

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 09:23 AM
Rick or Richie...

Can you guys tell me what is the measurements between the 2 front wheels from the inner left nut to the inner right nut?

In his plans Brad mentions 30" for the front tract.... I want to put the front end as short as possible to reduce the width of my trike on the road... *** Forbid that I take up too much space on the side of the road when VEHICLES!!! Own the Road!

I do not know about you guys but here in Moncton Drivers HAS NO RESPECT for Cyclist! As far as they are concern we should not be on the road! If a cyclist is on the sidewalk he gets a fine from the cops! So we have to ride on the side of the road!

My shoulder lenght is about 18" to 20" so I was thinking of a front track of 24" max but would that be too narrow??? for handling the trike and stability??

Thanks in Advanced for all your Help GUYS!! :beatnik2:

trikeman
01-21-2009, 11:08 AM
Rick.... I never heard of this term before and I tried googling it to see any pics on this "Fishmouth" techniques? Do you have any pics to show me what a fishmouthing of pipes like you suggested?

Thanks!

Fishmouthing is also called coping, or mitering by some. It just means cutting a tube so that another tube will fit in before welding. It often looks like an open fishmouth on round tubing. There are several good programs that will let you print out the shape and paste them on the tube before cutting. Here are two

http://metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

http://moz.geek.nz/mozbike/tubemiter.zip

If you are interested in round tubes, here is a great video that shows a guy coping some tubing and cutting it with a hacksaw. Its a work of art. He is using a lug to draw the fish mouths on, but you can just as easily use the program above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIxCdTRkRHo

Finally, here is a good discussion on cutting the fishmouths on the SF

http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=1474&highlight=fishmouth

rickairmed
01-21-2009, 01:19 PM
Moe ( fishmouth ) what you did to the end of your main beam to get it to fit flush against the bottom bracket from your donor bike when you slid it into the main tube.

The measurements brad uses is 16" for the tube for each side of the steering tube ( heres the catch on our trikes we weld both ends of the steering tube solid so once they are welded the width is set in stone ) on your trike by doing the steering tube the way I described above you can still shorten each side if you find it to wide since you have 2 seperate steeering tubes that you will be bolting into the exhaust couplers . You can simply build both sides and slide tem into place and if you feel its to wide you can take an equal amount off of both sides before drilling for the bolts.Keep in mind you dont want to make the front steering beam to narrrow or you wont be able to steer .

Rick

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 01:29 PM
Fishmouthing is also called coping, or mitering by some. It just means cutting a tube so that another tube will fit in before welding. It often looks like an open fishmouth on round tubing. There are several good programs that will let you print out the shape and paste them on the tube before cutting. Here are two

http://metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

http://moz.geek.nz/mozbike/tubemiter.zip

If you are interested in round tubes, here is a great video that shows a guy coping some tubing and cutting it with a hacksaw. Its a work of art. He is using a lug to draw the fish mouths on, but you can just as easily use the program above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIxCdTRkRHo

Finally, here is a good discussion on cutting the fishmouths on the SF

http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=1474&highlight=fishmouth

WOW Thanks TrikeMan!! Those links are AWESOME!

I was doing FishMouthing all along and did not know it but I was doing it all by Eye & Grind.... I would start by grinding a bit and fitting with my eyes on the pipe it was a lot of work and I always wonder how the pro's done it???'

I Love this link:
http://metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

but I have not a clue to the thickness of the pipe??? Does anyone know the thickness of a 1 1/2" Conduit??

Thanks!

trikeman
01-21-2009, 01:40 PM
It depends on if it is really conduit, or just EMT (thinner). I buy a few of these each year because I lose them lol

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7914

Those are not just handy for welding, but my son and I have often remarked how it is one of the most used tools we have. We always need it for trying to figure out what size a nut or bolt is.

and I love to carry this one in my pocket when I am "shopping."

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200306412_200306412

Most of the 1" EMT I have used is so close to 1/16" (0.0625), that it doesn't make much difference to worry about it.

rickairmed
01-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Moe I would say you can use the thickness already in the program .065 for your tube as that part of it really isnt going to make a great deal of differance in the final fishmouth.


Rick

rickairmed
01-21-2009, 01:45 PM
Moe I have been fishmouthing by eye for a loong time it works although having a program might make it easier .

Rick

trikeman
01-21-2009, 01:49 PM
You can also buy plastic templates in the larger sizes. A lot of the pipe welders apparently use them and some on my welding forum say they use the computer program to make their own out of flexible plastic. Easy to make and cheap.

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 01:51 PM
Moe ( fishmouth ) what you did to the end of your main beam to get it to fit flush against the bottom bracket from your donor bike when you slid it into the main tube.

The measurements brad uses is 16" for the tube for each side of the steering tube ( heres the catch on our trikes we weld both ends of the steering tube solid so once they are welded the width is set in stone ) on your trike by doing the steering tube the way I described above you can still shorten each side if you find it to wide since you have 2 seperate steeering tubes that you will be bolting into the exhaust couplers . You can simply build both sides and slide tem into place and if you feel its to wide you can take an equal amount off of both sides before drilling for the bolts.Keep in mind you dont want to make the front steering beam to narrrow or you wont be able to steer .

Rick

THANKS Rick!! :rockon:

I went to the Dungeon this morning before work.. (the thing I must do to pay for my passion... UGH!) and physically put the front wheels next to the main tube...

Because I am using 16" wheels for my front I can have a short one... but I am wondering what is too short that it will not be a stable ride? or is there such a thing?

I rather like this 2 piece because it makes the welding of the pipe easier to the tube.... because one can rotate it inside the coupler to get it at a perfect degree angle.... allow room for little imperfections...

I am off on Friday so hopefully I can get started on the front end and finish the foundation! YiPee!!

The Challenge will be fishmouthing those 2 pieces they will need to be perfectly alined....

I am seriously thinking about doing the AB thing with the muffler clamps for the coupler so That I could put it under the Main Tube and getting away from the complicating alignment on the sides....

What you think?

trikeman
01-21-2009, 01:55 PM
I would not swear to these dimensions, since EMT isn't exactly made to aerospace standards, but you may find this table handy

http://www.westerntube.com/electrical_metallic_tubing.htm

rickairmed
01-21-2009, 02:02 PM
Moe one thing I have learned in life is a little extra effort always pays off :D. I would still weld the couplers to the sides of the mainbeam it will take a little more efort but I think it will turn out a better end product you will be happier with . I would say as far as getting them to line up make a mark on either side of the maintube from a point on the back of the maintube such as the bottom bracket you welded to it . This will get you in the same place on either side . Then make sure the maintube is sitting perfectly upright and use a straight edge across the maintube to line up your couplers on either side so that they are sticking straight out of the sides of the maintube. This will require some trial and error to get it right but I think it will look best . I have a pile of these magnets which makes getting things lined up right alot easier. The link is to Harbor Freight but you should be able to get them up there at Princess auto as that seems to be the Canadian version of Harbor freight :D.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1938


Rick

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 02:17 PM
I would not swear to these dimensions, since EMT isn't exactly made to aerospace standards, but you may find this table handy

http://www.westerntube.com/electrical_metallic_tubing.htm

WOW AWESOME YOU ROCK!!!! Thanks TrikeMan!!

Did I say Thanks???? I mean THANKS!!!

I am at work and doing this inbetween jobs... (Computer Tech)

http://monctoncomputer.com/

Checkout the Service Section and you will see me... MugShot!

macka
01-21-2009, 02:17 PM
Moe,

air liquide sells those magnetic "clamps". You can also hit up Canadian tire and NAPA. IIRC there is a TSC store in Moncton, and also an Ace hardware. Or is that in Oro?

macka
01-21-2009, 02:23 PM
WOW AWESOME YOU ROCK!!!! Thanks TrikeMan!!

Did I say Thanks???? I mean THANKS!!!

I am at work and doing this inbetween jobs... (Computer Tech)

http://monctoncomputer.com/

Checkout the Service Section and you will see me... MugShot!

nice specs, you have good taste :elvis: how many 15" lcd's do you have in stock?

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 02:41 PM
nice specs, you have good taste :elvis: how many 15" lcd's do you have in stock?

Thanks Macka...

Where you really located???? I know it says 2 min. from the north pole.. It does feel like that from time to time in Moncton... :rolleyes4:

We have 5 x 15" LCD in stock and there is 5 more on the way...

MoeMac
01-21-2009, 02:45 PM
Moe one thing I have learned in life is a little extra effort always pays off :D. I would still weld the couplers to the sides of the mainbeam it will take a little more efort but I think it will turn out a better end product you will be happier with . I would say as far as getting them to line up make a mark on either side of the maintube from a point on the back of the maintube such as the bottom bracket you welded to it . This will get you in the same place on either side . Then make sure the maintube is sitting perfectly upright and use a straight edge across the maintube to line up your couplers on either side so that they are sticking straight out of the sides of the maintube. This will require some trial and error to get it right but I think it will look best . I have a pile of these magnets which makes getting things lined up right alot easier. The link is to Harbor Freight but you should be able to get them up there at Princess auto as that seems to be the Canadian version of Harbor freight :D.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1938


Rick

Thanks Rick...

Yes those magnets can be purchase at Princess Auto and I have a couple... Like I said.. Friday will be "D-DAY" and I will see how it goes at Canadian Tire for the coupler... I am going to bring with me a short peice of that 1 1/2" Conduit to make sure I get the exact size and if they do not have it I will go to Speedy Muffler Shop to see if they would sell me a piece that has the right lengh and coupler size for both pipe.

rickairmed
01-21-2009, 03:36 PM
Moe sounds like a plan . I think once you get it laid out it will go pretty easy.


Rick

MoeMac
01-22-2009, 08:49 PM
Well... today I took a mental health day and went down to Canadian tire. I was in the exhaust section desperately searching for 2 couplers to make my StreetCruiser front end detachable because due to the limited storage space I would not be able to store the trike in one piece.

Thanks to Rick! He gave me a Brilliant Ideal with detachable front cross beam!

It was not looking good folks! There was none there! My main tube of choice for the trike is 1 1/2" Conduit... Every coupler that I tried for 1 1/2" inside did not work! I discovered that I needed 1 3/4" Inside.

Just when I was ready to give up... BOOM the fairy *** Chopper magically created aN 18" with 1 3/4" inside coupler on both ends!!!! I could not believe my eyes... It was the only one there and it looked like it was a special order because it did not have the normal tag on it. It was a ticker with hand written special order code!

So I came home with all that was needed couplEr, nuts, bolts and lockwasher FOR $22.00 Canadian! WaHOO!!

A Very SPECIAL THANKS to Rick! who kinda pushed me to pursue this mthod and encouraging me to not giveup and do as he suggested as it would look much nicer and more professional....

A very SPECIAL THANKS to Richie who came up with the detachable concept from one of his quad mode!

A Super SPECIAL THANKS to TrikeMan who kindly help direct me to this awesome site that did an amazing job with giving me a printed patern so I could fishmouth the detachable front end!!!

THIS PLACE ROCKS! :punk::punk::punk:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SCFE01.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SCFE02.jpg

MoeMac
01-22-2009, 08:57 PM
OK... HiHo Tis MOE!

After getting the deatchable front end coupler ready I got to work on the rear end... Followed the instructions from the plans and did the measurments...

I am using a Phat Ass 20"x4.25" Tire and Rim from the rear end of a Teen Pacific Coast Chopper... I took the shock assembly from a heavy dutty 20" kid bike... Yep I tested it first to make sure it did not bottom out on me... (I weigh 125 lbs)....

And I got it done!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SCRE01.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SCRE02.jpg

NOW! Tomorrow I am going to complete the front end!! CAN'T WAIT!!! Too bad I can not work through the night!!! The neighbors would not appriceate it!! :sleep1:

SirJoey
01-22-2009, 08:59 PM
Moe, U R a workaholic! :D


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

MoeMac
01-22-2009, 09:16 PM
Moe, U R a workaholic! :D


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

:sunny: I have A.D.D. it is known as the Brain withot Breaks! When an A.D.D. mind is stimulated on something it is like a pitbull's JAWS! The only way you can unlock it is with a crowbard! :1eye:

There are some disavatages... We can burn out easy! So the curfew on the Dungeon is good for me!!

rickairmed
01-22-2009, 09:22 PM
Moe congrats on your parts and getting more done on the trike . I just walfed in the door spent the last 2 hours in an autozone parking lot swapping an alternator :D:D WAAHOOOOOOOOO . I may drum up enough energy to get back on the Baby Streetfox tonight but most likely it will be tomorow before I do much. Remember to make your couplers as short as possible while still leaving plenty of meat for the front crossmembers to slide into . I would try to keep them under 6" as that will make the main beam 13-15" wide.


Rick

MoeMac
01-23-2009, 12:27 AM
Moe congrats on your parts and getting more done on the trike . I just walfed in the door spent the last 2 hours in an autozone parking lot swapping an alternator :D:D WAAHOOOOOOOOO . I may drum up enough energy to get back on the Baby Streetfox tonight but most likely it will be tomorow before I do much. Remember to make your couplers as short as possible while still leaving plenty of meat for the front crossmembers to slide into . I would try to keep them under 6" as that will make the main beam 13-15" wide.


Rick

Yep... that is what I did I made them 6" but with the fishmouth it reduced them to 5". As far as the meat is concerned I was only able to shove it in 2" any more I would have had to hus a rubber mallet but that would make it impossible to remove after.

I am thinking of reinforcing them by welding an angle iron across underneith... I am sure that it will give it some support...

I wen to bed early but I cannot stop thinking about the work that I am going to do to it later today! ARGH! Cannot shut my mind down!:sleep1::rolleyes4:

rickairmed
01-23-2009, 12:33 AM
Moe the angle iron should work for reinforcing and lack of sleep I understand :D . I think I may try to catch a few ZZZZZZZZZZZ's myself but if that doesnt work out theres always thedesktop puter in the bedroom .

Rick

SirJoey
01-23-2009, 05:18 AM
I wen to bed early but I cannot stop thinking...
ARGH! Cannot shut my mind down!Geezo-Pete, can I ever relate to THAT! :sleep1:
I thought a hobby was supposed to be relaxing, & HELP you sleep, not PREVENT it! :eek:

*** Sir SleeplessInSC Joey ***


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

savarin
01-23-2009, 08:39 AM
I wen to bed early but I cannot stop thinking about the work that I am going to do to it later today! ARGH! Cannot shut my mind down!:sleep1::rolleyes4:

but isnt this how the best ideas pop up?
I try to think of the next problem as I drift off and it often works.

MoeMac
01-23-2009, 10:44 PM
Well... Today was a full day I think that I did managed to fall asleep around 2am last night and I woke up around 10am. Day off today.. WaHoo...

Yep some of the best ideas come lying there in bed before the Alpha stage!

This is more than a Hobby... it is a Passion!

Well... a while back I had purchased a Phat Ass Seat that was intended for a trike so I took that seat for the Street Cruiser:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/sc_seat.jpg

Tada!!

MoeMac
01-23-2009, 10:51 PM
Ok... One thing about me is I do not do back rest from scratch... I do not have the the tools to do them so this is why I use a regular seat cruiser with springs.. (want that extra bounce on the potholes)

On Kijiji I found this for 10.00:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/AB_Machine.jpg

So I took it apart and use the origional bottom backets:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/sc_seatrest1.jpg

Then I mounted it to the frame... still have some adjustments to make and a way to bolt the top so I can remove it easy also:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/sc_seatrest2.jpg

TaDa... :helmet:

MoeMac
01-23-2009, 10:58 PM
OK... This is where the day was spent!! ARGH!! It was HARD!!

First it all went in smooth then I wanted to weld the head tubes but I wanted it to be solid and take most of the headtube to weld on to give it strength... So I mushroomed the front and in the process the round end somehow was not perfectly round again!! ARGH!!!

After grinding and patiently pressing I managed to get both round again so that it would go back in its holes!! This took about 2 hours!!

Then my roll of wire was giving me problems so I lost an other hour!

But then.... I was determined.... That A.D.D. mind! and I did it!!

REMOVABLE FRONT END for easier storage!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/sc_frontarm.jpg

TaDa... OuppA!

MoeMac
01-23-2009, 11:03 PM
Well.. I went to the Dungeon at 12pm and I just came up at 10pm.... Ten HOURS STRAIGHT!!!

And now a first glance at the "StreetCruiser"
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/sc001.jpg

YiHaa!!!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/sc002.jpg

Those are not the Handlebars that I will be using... Just wanted to see how it would look...

So what you think Guys???
:hippy:

rickairmed
01-23-2009, 11:05 PM
Moe looks like you been busy today and I'll bet theres more pics comming if I know you :D. One little suggestion I might make in looking at the last pic of your new seat and backrest looks like you need to cut the ends off the backrest seatbracket and take a couple inches off of it and then weld the ends back on :D.

Rick

rickairmed
01-23-2009, 11:09 PM
See I posted to quick I knowed there were more pictures comming :D. I am impressed with how for you got today heck you may be riding it sunday if you keep it up . I actually like the handlebars might need a differant color foam on them but otherwise they look pretty good .


Rick

MoeMac
01-23-2009, 11:34 PM
Moe looks like you been busy today and I'll bet theres more pics comming if I know you :D. One little suggestion I might make in looking at the last pic of your new seat and backrest looks like you need to cut the ends off the backrest seatbracket and take a couple inches off of it and then weld the ends back on :D.

Rick

Yep... that is exactly what I am going to do... I figured it out after looking at the picture... exactly what you said! GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!
:party:

rickairmed
01-23-2009, 11:58 PM
Moe I had another DUH moment while looking back at your pictures for the backrest top mount you are using conduit for your tubing so a simple top mount for the backrest to me would be to make a T to screw to the backrest and then simply use a conduit clamp to secure it to the upright behind the backrest :D.

Rick

Richie Rich
01-24-2009, 01:29 AM
It won't be long now, MoeMac...!!! :sunny:

Find a snowless patch of road and be sure to post a ride report.
With your unique design, I'm interested in how it handles, especially with zero caster and camber.

...Richie...
.

SirJoey
01-24-2009, 06:56 AM
Dude, you are a machine!
What do have there, a factory? :eek:
Nice work. Seriously heavy-duty!


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

MoeMac
01-24-2009, 10:19 AM
Moe I had another DUH moment while looking back at your pictures for the backrest top mount you are using conduit for your tubing so a simple top mount for the backrest to me would be to make a T to screw to the backrest and then simply use a conduit clamp to secure it to the upright behind the backrest :D.

Rick

Thanks Rick...

But again with the visual thing... having a hard time to see it in my mind's eye... I have not paid much attention to the conduit section except the pipes so I do not know what the clamp even looks like...

I was thinking of cutting the pipe above the shock and inserting an other pipe so that I could slide in the pipe shaft making the seat and the pipe detachable so that way I would not have it sticking out so that the main beam would be easier to store...

MoeMac
01-24-2009, 10:22 AM
It won't be long now, MoeMac...!!! :sunny:

Find a snowless patch of road and be sure to post a ride report.
With your unique design, I'm interested in how it handles, especially with zero caster and camber.

...Richie...
.

Richie....

I am all new the the tech terms of bikes... but what is zero caster and chamber???

Also Richie... did you see the post I reply too earlier in the thread asking you if you could give me the part code to your suggested quick ball end? It would be greatly appreciated...

THANKS... :punk:

MoeMac
01-24-2009, 10:28 AM
Dude, you are a machine!
What do have there, a factory? :eek:
Nice work. Seriously heavy-duty!


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Hey SirJoey...

When the alarm clock went off this morning I felt I was hit by a machine!! :sleep1:

Man oh Man... sometimes an A.D.D. brain can physically drain you! but I would not quit ysterday until I would accomplish what I had set up to do in my mind...

Still have lots more work to do...

The rear hub is a single speed so I want a few more choices... I have come up in my mind to put a 3 sproket front. That way I will have a 3 speed cruiser... also I have an awesome setup for the rear brake. I saw it on a video from youtube. This dude made one BAD Chop and did not want anything on the handle bars so he rigged up a foot break! AWESOME!

Because my 2 front wheels is detachable the handbreaks on each one will be independent with its own wheel.

I also want the backrest to be detachable...

SirJoey
01-24-2009, 11:59 AM
Moe, how do u get lucky enough to find all these chopper bikes?
I rarely see 'em, & if I do, they want a war price for 'em! :eek:

If I could snag a couple of 'em without spending a fortune,
I'd make some kinda kool chop like one of yours. :punk:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

MoeMac
01-24-2009, 01:05 PM
Moe, how do u get lucky enough to find all these chopper bikes?
I rarely see 'em, & if I do, they want a war price for 'em! :eek:

If I could snag a couple of 'em without spending a fortune,
I'd make some kinda kool chop like one of yours. :punk:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Hey SirJoey!!

Yep... there are awesome to work with because of the wheels and curves!

I got mine through my local Kijiji. They started to surface last summer and they sold from 50.00 to 100.00... so I purchased a few... There is still one in my city:
http://moncton.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-sports-bikes-Chopper-Bicycle-Bike-W0QQAdIdZ98967271

A lot in Halifax NS (neighbouring province.. it would be a state in the USA)..

There was a fad down here back in 2005-2006 where Zellers, Canadian Tire and Wal-Mart had all these Teen and Kiddy Choppers... Last year people started to get rid of them so I made a killing on them (purchased quite a few) with having in mind to chop them the way I wanted to... :punk:

rickairmed
01-24-2009, 01:23 PM
Moe this is a conduit clamp and actually as I looked at it I realised you could simply screw it to your backrest like I have it here on my gate put it around the conduit and put a bolt through it .


http://www.flickr.com/photos/34681559@N05/3223544738/

Rick

MoeMac
01-24-2009, 01:26 PM
Moe this is a conduit clamp and actually as I looked at it I realised you could simply screw it to your backrest like I have it here on my gate put it around the conduit and put a bolt through it .

Rick

PERFECT!!!

Thanks Rick for your constant efforts with my project!! I will make sure that I include you in my credits!! :cheesy:

That is what I will do! :punk:

rickairmed
01-24-2009, 01:57 PM
Moe no problem at all working in Home repair and around cars has just given me a few areas where I can look at something and go I think this would work here :D. I think I may have to break down and open a photo bucket account though I keep having to remove attatchments to add new ones which will eventually mess up your thread :D.

Rick

newrider3
01-24-2009, 02:15 PM
Lookin nice so far! What are you planning to do with that dirt bike lookin thing in the background? I've always wanted to try one out, they are soo stupid but still look like a lot of fun. Mabey add a chainsaw engine?:punk:

MoeMac
01-24-2009, 02:37 PM
Lookin nice so far! What are you planning to do with that dirt bike lookin thing in the background? I've always wanted to try one out, they are soo stupid but still look like a lot of fun. Mabey add a chainsaw engine?:punk:

Good one!

I purchased it for the wheels 16" and the front forks.... I built recumbents that needs a 16" front... :builder2:

newrider3
01-24-2009, 02:40 PM
The yellow one? I thought those were 20".

MoeMac
01-24-2009, 05:05 PM
The yellow one? I thought those were 20".

Nope.... 16" with rear and front shocks... pretty impressive for a kiddy bike! I would had loved to had that when I was a child! :scooter:

newrider3
01-24-2009, 05:34 PM
I think an original one would be cool:
http://bmxmuseum.com/image/yamahas_lg.gif

rickairmed
01-24-2009, 05:48 PM
Newrider I had something like that 30+ years ago it was 20" and had a red plastic tank and fenders and the seat was actually like a motorcycleseat . I guess it was supposed to look like a motorised dirtbike only with pedals and actually it did :D. I have no idea what Mom did with it most likely it has been gone for years.

Rick

newrider3
01-24-2009, 06:23 PM
Those things are worth a lot of money nowadays.

rickairmed
01-24-2009, 06:56 PM
Yeah I know just like all my old AFX/Tyco slot cars and track not to mention the hotwheels and other classic goodies that have most likely gone to the dump in the last 23 years :D.

Rick

Richie Rich
01-24-2009, 07:48 PM
Richie....

I am all new the the tech terms of bikes... but what is zero caster and chamber???Hi, Moe....here's a brief explanation which I stole from the great Sheldon Brown's Glossary...

"In tadpole tricycles , and other vehicles with two front wheels, the steering axis for each front wheel should be slanted so that it intersects the road surface somewhere in the middle of the tire track for that wheel. This is what is meant by "center point steering." The benefit of this is that braking forces or forces caused by hitting bumps in the road have little or no tendency to cause the wheel to steer to the side if the vehicle has center point steering."

I only mentioned it because I noticed that your steering tubes are vertical and may affect the handling of the trike especially when encountering bumps, ruts, potholes etc. Just something to consider....


Also Richie... did you see the post I reply too earlier in the thread asking you if you could give me the part code to your suggested quick ball end? It would be greatly appreciated... Here ya go....

http://www.midwestcontrol.com/catdisplay_short.php?pg=118

I used the QI250-A version.

I hope this helps....

....Richie...
.

MoeMac
01-25-2009, 11:33 AM
Hi, Moe....

I only mentioned it because I noticed that your steering tubes are vertical and may affect the handling of the trike especially when encountering bumps, ruts, potholes etc. Just something to consider....

I used the QI250-A version.

I hope this helps....

....Richie...
.

THANKS RICHIE!

Now I understand and I hope that the trikes handles safe on the road... the reason I went with the 90 degree front end is that I found the angle thing very hard to do... There was really no angle set in the instructions to say "OK cut the brackets at 20 degree" that would had been better for me because I have a chop shaw that cuts degrees... My eye sight is not good at doing it right on because I was dealing with precision to the 2 front wheels.... the 90 degree angle and the center point of the wheel is the same as the normal rear wheel. So I am really hoping that the trike will handle good.. and not kill me? :wings:

Thanks for the part number and the link it helps me BIG TIME!! So you used the 1/4". On my other 2 bikes I used the 5/16" but they are not quick release... So I would be safe with 5/16" quick release?

With Gratitude
Moe...

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 12:30 PM
Hi Moe I would go with the Ql375 on your trike due to the wider front wheels putting more side force on the rod ends those are 3/8" .

Rick

MoeMac
01-25-2009, 01:21 PM
Hi Moe I would go with the Ql375 on your trike due to the wider front wheels putting more side force on the rod ends those are 3/8" .

Rick

Thanks Rick!

I will... Rick, what is your views on what Richie shared with me to the fact that I have done the head tubes at 90 degrees instead of the angle talked about?

I went on the assumption of doing the headtube the way a single wheel front end was made. I made sure that the headtube was dead on the middle for the wheel to pivot on it's center as if it was on the front end of a single wheel.

I am a little concern now... :confused:

greenevegiebeast
01-25-2009, 01:32 PM
moe for true ackerman steering you will have steering issues. manily instabilite or wander. your trike may be a hand full yo ride. at low speed you should be ok as you get faster it will get worse.

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 01:32 PM
Moe I think it will work out ok . I will add that although you cant change the camber now ( how much the wheel tilts in or out at the top) you will be able to work with the caster wich I do think will make a differance in how it rides . I would take it for test rides as is once you have it built before paint . To chnge the caster will be a simple matter of removing the bolts that hold the front beams in place and letting it settle a little ( a jack of some sort might make this easier ) and then just drilling back through the original holes on your connectors through the beams and bolting them back together . I dont think it will take much . Caster will make a world of differance in how it handles.


Rick

greenevegiebeast
01-25-2009, 01:38 PM
with no camber it will not self center and may be twitichy.

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 01:44 PM
The caster will take care of most of that GVB as the top of the headtube lays back and the bottom kicks out to the front it will move the patch of tire on the road and will help fight bumpsteer.

Rick

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 01:52 PM
Moe I can probably do up a couple pics if you need to show caster and camber :D but I have a service call to run shortly so I may be gone about an hour to an hour and 1/2 . Should be a quicky service call dirty flame sensor .

Rick

MoeMac
01-25-2009, 02:17 PM
Moe I can probably do up a couple pics if you need to show caster and camber :D but I have a service call to run shortly so I may be gone about an hour to an hour and 1/2 . Should be a quicky service call dirty flame sensor .

Rick

That would be great! because I have not a clue to what this caster and camber is all about.... thisis all confusing me... :confused::confused::confused:

What I was half thinking was at the worst... because of Rick's and Richie's great idea of removable front end... that I could do a new set and find an other exact pair of head tubes and start again with this complicated angle thing....

I know that it is because of the stearing ... if the 2 wheels were in the back I would not have this problem right?

It will be a while yet before I can take it out for a test run as I still have to do the front pedal sproket and chain and handlebars and brakes.... :dunce2:

Thanks you guys for the constant help and support!!! This Forum's MEMBERS are the BEST SUPPORT EVER!!! :rockon:

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 03:23 PM
Ok Moe I'm back give me 15-20 minutes and I will get you some pics of caster and camber :D.


Rick

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 03:43 PM
Ok Moe I am using a 12" tire and fork to show these examples but it should show you what we are meaning by caster and camber.

This first picture will be negative camber where the top of the wheel leans in and the bottom of the wheel leans out . Imagine these are you left front wheel looking at the front of the bike.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34681559@N05/3226382180/



Ok next one is positive camber where the top leans out and the bottom leans in.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/34681559@N05/3226382228/



Ok now we will get into caster the first pic will be zero caster . Notice how the fork is straight up and down . The degree wheel actually shows 90*


http://www.flickr.com/photos/34681559@N05/3225525877/


This next pic shows the forktube leaning back at 75* on the degree wheel.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/34681559@N05/3225525937/


This is the angle you want on your caster and on your trike will be easy simply by removing the bolts holding your front beams in and allowing the trike to settle a little so that the tops of the head tubes are leaned back slightly.Then simply drill new holes for the bolts through the steering tubes.

Rick

TheKid
01-25-2009, 03:48 PM
On my PVC quad, I originally had 0 camber, with 10° of caster. With no center point steering, there was a lot of wheel scrub. Even a small amount of caster allows for the wheels to self center. (Like the caster wheels on the front of a shopping cart.) As RR stated in another thread, some caster will be inherent when you sit on a rear suspended tadpole. If it's not enough, your design easily allows you to increase caster angle. Your biggest problem may be with wheel scrub, which I found was more noticeable at slower speeds. Tires will also wear more quickly, especially because there's more weight on the front wheels of a tadpole than a LWB quad.

MoeMac
01-25-2009, 04:16 PM
This is the angle you want on your caster and on your trike will be easy simply by removing the bolts holding your front beams in and allowing the trike to settle a little so that the tops of the head tubes are leaned back slightly.Then simply drill new holes for the bolts through the steering tubes.

Rick

THANKS RICK!!

I am still battling with it... but I am starting to understand that the angle that I did on my trike can be problematic specially with bumps, higher speed and tire wear?

This will be a cruiser (single speed) because the rear wheel is a single speed. I did not designed this trike to drive a marrathon, just to cruise around the city and looking SUPER COOL!! :elvis:

Rick: If I angle the front the bottom of the front frame will hit the road (take a second look at the pic and the distance from the fram where the brakes will mount to the road)... Your idea of angling it is AWESOME and you are right the way that I made it.

I guess the proof will be when I take it out for a test run... hopefully that will be soon so I can move forward more with it..

The way that I see it is: It is not all lost because I can do a new set of front wheels with new set of headtubes and a different framing on the front wheeels. I really do not want that route because of the angle thing... If I had a set angle for the caster and camber then I could make sure to do it on both... just like a blueprint... follow the mesurments and angle...

So to recap my understanding:

The angle thing is important for STEARING and keeping the tires on the road right... ruducing wear and tear... better and more solid stearing...

All my other bikes were done with set angles from previous manufacture designed... I used them at their angle....

So now I am really anxious to get it on the road and see how it handles... I am not working on it today... spending it with my fiancee... She said that she was starting to feel like a widow.. So wanted to give her some quality time.

Tomorrow I will be at it again... Rick... I got those conduit clamps and it was a great idea! THANKS!

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 04:23 PM
Moe I just took a look at your last side shot picture on page 4 of this thread and I think you have plenty of room for 10-15* of caster without the lower parts of the frames on the front wheels hitting the ground . I will add though if it was a problem it would be easy enough to cut the lower portins off and weld them back on at an angle that woudnt interfere with the road .

Rick

newrider3
01-25-2009, 06:22 PM
Re drilling the mounting holes to adjust caster seems like a good idea. To get some more camber, all you would have to do is cut a small notch from each head tube boom, and reweld, then cut a notch from the bottom of each steerer to get the tire into the position it needs to be.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa239/newrider3/bentfrontend.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa239/newrider3/frontwheel.jpg

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Guys remember as Moe said this is a single speed trike not a speed demon so putting in all the extra work to get camber really isnt going to make alot of diferance in the ride quality . Caster on the other hand which will be easy on his trike will be a breeze to change and will get the center point steering he wants so the tires return to center and will keep from having issues with bumpsteer when hitting potholes and other bumps in the road.

Rick

newrider3
01-25-2009, 07:02 PM
Really not too much extra work, mostly just a good modification for when he is struck with boredom.

savarin
01-25-2009, 10:48 PM
Please have a read of this page for the real explanations, we seem to be bandying the wrong terms around.
http://www.eland.org.uk/steer_intro.html
King pin angle ie, the bottom of the angle points to the contact patch of the tyre, this is centerpoint steering.
Angling the the bottom of the king pin forwards is castor and affects the trail which self centers the steering.
positive and negative camber ie, top of wheels leaning inwards or outwards on a trike is a personal thing and does not appear to affect handling but does affect tyre wear.
Ackerman steering is better described on the above site.
HTH.

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 11:01 PM
OK basically 0* camber isnt going to have negative effects on the steering or rideability of the Trike 0* caster on the otherhand will cause twitchy steering and bumpsteer when one of the front tires so much as runs over a rock it will cause the trike to veer in one direction or another .

Rick

MoeMac
01-25-2009, 11:30 PM
OK basically 0* camber isnt going to have negative effects on the steering or rideability of the Trike 0* caster on the otherhand will cause twitchy steering and bumpsteer when one of the front tires so much as runs over a rock it will cause the trike to veer in one direction or another .

Rick

OK... so I should make sure I have the right caster? What the hell is the caster eats in the winter?? :confused::confused:

I gots a headache.... :rolleyes4:

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 11:34 PM
Moe here ya go take the bolts out of your front steering beams and let the trike settle so that the tops of the headtubes have leaned back between 1/2" to 1" and redrill the holes and put the bolts back in done :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-25-2009, 11:38 PM
Moe here ya go take the bolts out of your front steering beams and let the trike settle so that the tops of the headtubes have leaned back between 1/2" to 1" and redrill the holes and put the bolts back in done :D.

Rick

OK... So right from the beginning you were right! All I got to do is a 10 to 14 degree back (leaning towards the rear like a regular 2 wheel front end bike) right?

And this will give me stability on bumps and corners.. right?

I hope that I got it right??

YOU GUYS ROCK!

rickairmed
01-25-2009, 11:40 PM
Moe you got it thats all you need to do a little camber would be nice but its not the end of the world as you and I have said you are not building a streetracer your building a ( cruiser ) :D:D.


Rick

MoeMac
01-25-2009, 11:50 PM
Moe you got it thats all you need to do a little camber would be nice but its not the end of the world as you and I have said you are not building a streetracer your building a ( cruiser ) :D:D.


Rick

Wow Rick... WOW!! I can now get a good night sleep... Tomorrow I am back at it and what I was thinking of doing with those old holes might be to weld some nuts at the end so I could but some short bolts to secure it more after the right angle..

I have one of those angle magnet round thingy that was in your photo to explain to me the angle...

You have been a rock on this project with me and I cannot Thank You enough...

Also I want to make sure that the others know that I am GRATEFUL to there help...

TO ALL... THANK YOU!!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!

This project has been so far the BEST! :punk:

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 12:01 AM
Moe I can make life even easier after you have your angle set drill through the original holes on your couplers into the beams and then theres no extra holes on the outside . The extra holes on the beams will be inside the couplers and wont really matter.


Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 11:52 AM
-26 Celsius!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's around -7 for the USA Folks.... That is bloody cold!!

I had to walk to my nearest HomeHardware to pickup some cutoff blades that I had ordered and this means that I will be freezing my toes off in the dungeon today! but I am determine to get this project done!

Rick: Yep... after I went to bed last night I got to thinking about what I had written and I came up with the same conclusion... As long as the new holes are not too close the the old one I will be OK! If it is too close then it will not be strong ARGH!

One good thing out of this is I have learned "How NOT to do it!"

If in the instruction there would have been something like "Make this angle at 10 or 14 degree" then it would have been alot easier for folks like me.. I wouldhad used the angle magnet thingny.... :mad:

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 12:00 PM
Please have a read of this page for the real explanations, we seem to be bandying the wrong terms around.
http://www.eland.org.uk/steer_intro.html
King pin angle ie, the bottom of the angle points to the contact patch of the tyre, this is centerpoint steering.
Angling the the bottom of the king pin forwards is castor and affects the trail which self centers the steering.
positive and negative camber ie, top of wheels leaning inwards or outwards on a trike is a personal thing and does not appear to affect handling but does affect tyre wear.
Ackerman steering is better described on the above site.
HTH.

THANKS SAVARIN!!

This was an extreme help!!

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 02:45 PM
Moe the new holes shoule be 1/2" to 1" away from the current holes remember you are reusing the existing holes in the couplers and just redrilling through the beams . I would say if you are worried about strength after drilling the new holes pull the beams back out and ( slowly ) weld the old holes in the beams back solid take your time with this a little at a tie so you dont get to much heat into the beams and warp the beams keep a cool wet rag handy so you can cool the welds as you add filler material to the old holes.

Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 07:34 PM
Hi Rick... and others... :mad:

I am having a real hard time with this....

First, I arrived home and the oil people were in the dungeon... I found out that the hot water heater tank let go and they were replacing it with a new one. I kinda panic thinking that they would not give much attention to my bikes...

But they were professionals!! They respected the bikes!

But I was not able to get at the project until around 3pm...

Well.. just like Richie had predicted... 0 caster and 0 camber made the wheels rub and hardly turn! Just wanted to try it anyways.. No I did not bring it outside with the snow and -26 degree Celsius! OUCH...

I put it together and put a rod to hold the 2 wheels in place, and pushed it forward and backwards and saw the effects of the stearing... Not a Pretty Sight Folks!

Rick.... my holes are 3/8" so moving it 1/2 to 1 inch aint going to cut it...

So I went and checked the angle on a 20" mountain bike and it read 65 degree...

I then put the headtubes at 65 degree but not permanent and it made a big difference.....

The only thing is at 65 degree the original holes 3/8" will be not far to the point that the new holes will run into the old holes....

So..... I am going to try the new holes and it will make one long wide hole 3/8 plus 3/8" and see how the stearing works...

As I suspected.... I will be loosing the bottom bracket from my front wheel frame....:dunce2:

Would have been a lot easier if the instruction would had said "Headtube needs to be at 65 degree angle" Maybe it did and i did not see it?

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 07:43 PM
Moe I am pretty sure the instructions do deal with the angles :D. I have the books but do remember reading it . You dont have to loose the bottom brackets on the front wheels just cut them off and weld them back on at a higher angle. I would also sugest if the holes you drilled before are going to be to close to the new ones then drill completely new holes so you dont end up with elongated holes that could allow the front beams to turn inside the couplers.


Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 07:44 PM
OK... Page 50 in the StreetFox manual says 75 degree...

So... do I do 65 or 75?

Very confusing??? What have I got myself into?? YIKES!

I am feeling like scrapping the project and just sticking to the 2 wheeler projects. LOL!!

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 07:58 PM
LOL Moe your almost done the hard part is over :D . I would say whichever works best for your setup the BAbystreetfox I am doing is actually at 79* and seems to work fine so I would probably not go any further than the 75* as I think 65* might be a bit to deep.

Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 09:17 PM
LOL Moe your almost done the hard part is over :D . I would say whichever works best for your setup the BAbystreetfox I am doing is actually at 79* and seems to work fine so I would probably not go any further than the 75* as I think 65* might be a bit to deep.

Rick

:rolleyes4::rolleyes4::rolleyes4:

75* did not work..... Man... it must be because I did not do the angle on the end of the inner headtube???

I thought that I was going to be smart as long as I kept the axle at 90* because I saw a few tadpole with straight steering....

I got a good mind to just do something like the "Marauder Reloaded"...

I do not know Rick.... I need to look at your baby fox front end... Didi you do all the angles? I know you did the camber? or is it the caster that you said above at 79*

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Moe I have the camber of roughly 15* and a caster of 79* on the baby Tadpole you might look back at one of the other posts on your thread that suggested getting your 15* camber by cutting the steering beams on either side . I would say if I was going to do that I would make the 15*cut first then a straight cut and then weld the beams back together. make the 15* cut on the inside of the beam ( the side closer to the Main beam ) and then after you have the beams cut off make your straight down cuts on the beams laying there on the ground. You might even be able to turn the beams to get your 75* before welding them back up. I will admit I ran into troubles on the BabyStreetfox as well and they are documented in the build.

Rick

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 09:27 PM
Dont give up yet Moe your almost there just a little tweaking left and your there :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 10:08 PM
Moe I have the camber of roughly 15* and a caster of 79* on the baby Tadpole you might look back at one of the other posts on your thread that suggested getting your 15* camber by cutting the steering beams on either side . I would say if I was going to do that I would make the 15*cut first then a straight cut and then weld the beams back together. make the 15* cut on the inside of the beam ( the side closer to the Main beam ) and then after you have the beams cut off make your straight down cuts on the beams laying there on the ground. You might even be able to turn the beams to get your 75* before welding them back up. I will admit I ran into troubles on the BabyStreetfox as well and they are documented in the build.

Rick

I really do not want to give up but I cannot figure out the following angle!!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/1.jpg

I am willing to start a new again for the front end all I have to do it cut the tube and grind the headtube again.. but I want to do it right...

That damn angle!!! if I had a degree on it I would be able to do it... but to put my wheel up at 90* (inflated) and draw an imaginary line??? I am blind! (well... I use a white can to feel my way around in front of the bike)

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 10:12 PM
Dont give up yet Moe your almost there just a little tweaking left and your there :D.

Rick

Ah... Rick.... I cannot see myself cutting those tubes with an angle and then a straight cut... then welding it back... that is too much of a mess...

The trike looks damn good sitting there but other than that it can not steer... So it is dead work of art!

I can salvage the main btube with the rear end and do a very low rider 2 wheeler.. :builder2:

How did you get your angle with the bracket under the innertube of the headtube?? You did it by an imaginary line as the manual says?? and then I got to do the same for the other side?? What if that angle that I do it is a flop?? then all that work down the drain....:mad:

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Moe that angle should be 15* although on your build it might be a little more what you are looking for is from the Front of the trike the bottom of the kingpin should point towards the center of the bottom of the front tire in the book it is picture 5-19 . I am not sure if the pictures are numbered in the downloaded instructions but it is a drawing not an actual picture that shows what you are looking for .

Rick

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 10:19 PM
Moe I did it pretty much by eye as it says in the book its really not to bad and the way your frontend is done you could get one side right and then make a template of the area where I showed you to make a gusset . This template would help you geet the other side exact and also serve as a template for your gussets you could make the template out of cardboard or even cardstock. I still say dont give up you are not that far off just a little tweaking.

Rick

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 10:35 PM
Moe I just went back through and reread that part of the instructions and there actually isnt a set angle for that part of the build as there are many variables that will make up your final angle . I used 16" wheels much like you are but due to the lightweight rider under 50 pounds I didnt need all the extra support of the frames such as you have onyour frontend . I double checked and my headtubes are actually only at a 10* angle as where Brads in the instructions are probably closer to 15* due to the larger rims and tires.

Rick

TheKid
01-26-2009, 10:42 PM
There's no reason for not being able to steer due to a lack of center point steering. Even if the tubes are at 90°, the worst that would happen is you'd experience wheel scrub. Too much or too little toe in will cause difficult steering, as well as other factors, such as limitations in the travel of the steering. Check to see that there are no obstructions hindering the movement of the tie rod. For instance, if the tabs that hold the rod ends are at the wrong angles, the rod will jam against them, preventing steering. I had to rebend the tabs on my Streetfox 2 or 3 times before they were correct.
As for the 15° inclination, that changes with the size of the wheel, as well as the distance from the center of the wheel to the point where the axle is attached.
In order to get center point steering, the center of the kingpin should point to the center of the contact patch. If you can't measure that angle with tools, then you could make a template made of carboard based on a full or scale drawing, or cut the tube while the wheel is attached, hold the wheel at a 90° angle to the floor, and move the tube into the correct position. Then tack weld in several places before removing the wheel and fully welding the tube to the steering knuckle. I believe Brad shows this method in some of his plans.
If you don't plan on going more than 14-18 mph, you could get away with not using center point steering without sacrificing safety. But it's a good idea to implement some degree of caster to allow the wheels to self center. 5° of caster is enough, and with weight on the trike, that will increase a bit because you have rear suspension, as Richie pointed out earlier.

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Kid you again make good points . I agree before I started cutting it up I would check everything else real close first. I agree center point steering on Moe's trike wont be near as important as adding a little caster will be . Moe as kid said make sure you are not binding somewhere befoe going and cutting things that may not need to be cut.

Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 10:54 PM
Moe that angle should be 15* although on your build it might be a little more what you are looking for is from the Front of the trike the bottom of the kingpin should point towards the center of the bottom of the front tire in the book it is picture 5-19 . I am not sure if the pictures are numbered in the downloaded instructions but it is a drawing not an actual picture that shows what you are looking for .

Rick

To me that could be any angle I make it to be... knowing me my eyes will screw it up... If I leave it to my eyes..
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/2.jpg

So you are saying it was 15* on yours and the steering works great?

My mind is having a real hard time with this... so sorry about this and so sorry for being a pest...

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 11:01 PM
Moe no problem at all but before you cut anything go back up and read Thekids post He makes some very good points . I doublechecked and the angle on my Tadpole is only 10* the trick is to get it where you think it needs to be and tack it then step back and look if its not right you should be able to bend it one way or the other and recheck it even in the book Brad said he had to retack it 3 times before he got it right and he wrote the book we are merely coppying/modifying his plans :D. I have seen your other bikes and know you can do it .

Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 11:01 PM
The red will show how I could screw it up..
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/2a.jpg

see? too many possible angles that I could screw it up... as I am sure it would affect the steering.... that is why I thought as long as I keep the wheel lined up to its center 90*... Boy.. I was quite an Einstein there!

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 11:05 PM
Moe quit worrying about the camber as Kid says above there is something else causing your problem and camber isnt it take a break and come back to it tomorrow with a fresh head :D. I still say camber wont matter on your trike a little caster yes camber no.


Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 11:09 PM
Moe no problem at all but before you cut anything go back up and read Thekids post He makes some very good points . I doublechecked and the angle on my Tadpole is only 10* the trick is to get it where you think it needs to be and tack it then step back and look if its not right you should be able to bend it one way or the other and recheck it even in the book Brad said he had to retack it 3 times before he got it right and he wrote the book we are merely coppying/modifying his plans :D. I have seen your other bikes and know you can do it .

Rick

You have more faith than me Rick... my other bikes were all factory angled headtubes... I just took them and worked with it... This project I have to guess it by eye??? This is me:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/moe.jpg

Those glasses are thick! Classic Coke Bottoms... and I have not had my eyes checked for over 25 years... I was told that they are deteriorating every year...

That is why I work with Levels... and Angle finders.. and angle tools... ;)

I will give it an other shot next Friday but it will be from scratch again as I do not want to have a mess on my hands and trying to do the 75* this evening ruined the inside tube... but the outside tubes are ok...

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 11:13 PM
Moe good idea donnt let it get to you you will get it I have faith and like I said quit worrying so much about the camber thats not your problem trust me . The front tires might be toe'd in or out a little which would just be an ajustment of the tierod but camber isnt causing the problem . I would also lift the front tires off the ground and make sure they spin freely themselves.

Rick

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 11:32 PM
Moe good idea donnt let it get to you you will get it I have faith and like I said quit worrying so much about the camber thats not your problem trust me . The front tires might be toe'd in or out a little which would just be an ajustment of the tierod but camber isnt causing the problem . I would also lift the front tires off the ground and make sure they spin freely themselves.

Rick

I will take pics tomorrow and show you ... The headtubes are at 75* leaning towards the rear.. so that would be "CAMBER"???? as the caster is 90* (caster is picture that I posted just before this post that I am having problems finding the right angle with my eyes)..

Correct me if I am wrong? I would like to get this term correct for when I read it would understand it...

The rod end is OK... when I sit on the trike and push forward and turn the trike wants to turn but I hear rubbing and the tires looks good at the angle but it seems to me that the trike will not turn enough to make the curve...

Picture a clock...
Both wheels are lined up at 12
when I turn to the right and bring the wheels to 2 oclock on a 2 wheeler I can make a sharp turn to a curve in the road but with this trike its more like a 1 oclock turn but the wheels are at 2 oclock...

Those the above make sense??? :rolleyes4:

TheKid
01-26-2009, 11:39 PM
I will take pics tomorrow and show you ... The headtubes are at 75* leaning towards the rear.. so that would be "CAMBER"???? as the caster is 90* (caster is picture that I posted just before this post that I am having problems finding the right angle with my eyes)..



The head tubes at 75° leaning toward the rear gives you a CASTER angle of 15°, which is excessive, according to many builders. 10-12° is considered optimum in conjunction with center point steering, and since you're going to add 1-3° when you sit on the trike, you could get away with setting the caster at 8°. Even if you set it as low as 5°, you'll still allow the wheels to self center.
There are some who advocate having the kingpin point to a position slightly inside the tire patch, or slightly outside the patch. On my Fox, I had exact center point steering, but after switching to a different kingpin system, the kingpin is at 12°, pointing slightly inside the tire. The only difference is there is a very small amount of scrub at top speed, which actually allows more control. The scrub is minimal, and there's no sign of tire wear. I wouldn't worry about center point steering unless the trike becomes unsafe to ride at high speeds.
I've read accounts of builders who built American Speedster quad designs, which do not have center point steering, and even with a motor at high speeds, there was no ill effect. Others complained about shaky handling, but some of that might be due to expansion or contraction of the PVC frame. I didn't have a motor on mine, but the PVC started warping soon after I built it, and I rebuilt the front end with schedule 40 pipe, this time implementing center point steering. There was a noticeable difference in the reduction of wheel scrub, but other than that, it handled the same. That is until the rest of the frame started warping.

MoeMac
01-26-2009, 11:47 PM
There's no reason for not being able to steer due to a lack of center point steering. Even if the tubes are at 90°, the worst that would happen is you'd experience wheel scrub. Too much or too little toe in will cause difficult steering, as well as other factors, such as limitations in the travel of the steering. Check to see that there are no obstructions hindering the movement of the tie rod. For instance, if the tabs that hold the rod ends are at the wrong angles, the rod will jam against them, preventing steering. I had to rebend the tabs on my Streetfox 2 or 3 times before they were correct.
As for the 15° inclination, that changes with the size of the wheel, as well as the distance from the center of the wheel to the point where the axle is attached.
In order to get center point steering, the center of the kingpin should point to the center of the contact patch. If you can't measure that angle with tools, then you could make a template made of carboard based on a full or scale drawing, or cut the tube while the wheel is attached, hold the wheel at a 90° angle to the floor, and move the tube into the correct position. Then tack weld in several places before removing the wheel and fully welding the tube to the steering knuckle. I believe Brad shows this method in some of his plans.
If you don't plan on going more than 14-18 mph, you could get away with not using center point steering without sacrificing safety. But it's a good idea to implement some degree of caster to allow the wheels to self center. 5° of caster is enough, and with weight on the trike, that will increase a bit because you have rear suspension, as Richie pointed out earlier.

Thank You "TheKid" for taking the time to help me but it is all going over my head with the terms... I am not used to it and having a hard time... I am more of a visual person..

I am a computer consultant and I have many clients that know nothing and when they ask me for an explanation I explain to them in a more visual manner..

Example:
Client: "I do not understand the concept of the C drive???"
Me: "OK.. Picture in your mind the C Drive is a big office with a lot of filling cabinets. The main door to get in your office is called "The ROOT"... so your office is called the "C-Drive" (and I show them physically with them by taking them in front of the door) Now you are opening the door to your office and as you step on the mat we call this "The Root of your C-DRIVE" .... The I see the light going on in their eyes! I know they understood the ROOT of a Drive... Then I tell them "Each Filling cabinet has a label, this one next to the DOOR (root) is called ProgramFiles.. (then I see that light in their eyes again!)... Each drawer in the ProgramFiles Cabinet has a Label.... and inside each drawer there are file folders containing either instructions or information...

Then they get it!

I used to teach when computer came out and I taught DOS, Windows, Accounting and ect....

All my bikes were done with levels, angle finders and the such and my models were factory made bikes....

I really want this trike! My fiancee just called and when I told her that I wanted to throw in the towel and salvage what I had to do a LowRider 2 wheeler told me NO!!!! You do not give UP!

It is not that I want to give up... It is that I do not want to damage what I made so far "The Rear End (AWESOME!)... The Backrest (I Fuxed this evening!!!)... The Seat (Phat ASS Comfy!!)... the main tube.. (perfect!)... and the side mounts.. (also perfect...)

But the front wheels and headtubes I Screwed up! BIG TIMES....

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 11:55 PM
I will take pics tomorrow and show you ... The headtubes are at 75* leaning towards the rear.. so that would be "CAMBER"???? as the caster is 90* (caster is picture that I posted just before this post that I am having problems finding the right angle with my eyes)..

Correct me if I am wrong? I would like to get this term correct for when I read it would understand it...

The rod end is OK... when I sit on the trike and push forward and turn the trike wants to turn but I hear rubbing and the tires looks good at the angle but it seems to me that the trike will not turn enough to make the curve...

Picture a clock...
Both wheels are lined up at 12
when I turn to the right and bring the wheels to 2 oclock on a 2 wheeler I can make a sharp turn to a curve in the road but with this trike its more like a 1 oclock turn but the wheels are at 2 oclock...

Those the above make sense??? :rolleyes4:

Moe your caster and camber are backwards the ( caster ) is the 75* backwards lean on the headtube this is the important one on your trike and hopefully you have it licked now. The ( Camber ) is the amount the headtube leans in at the top towards the center of the trike. This is the part that is givng you fits :D and is also the part that will make little differance on your trike due to the speeds you will be running on it :D.


Rick

rickairmed
01-26-2009, 11:59 PM
Moe if you get a chance over the next couple of days get a decent head on ( from the front and low to the ground ) shot of your trike for me . I have been splainin HVAC to customers for years in ways they can understand and I know we can work through this on your trike.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 12:04 AM
Moe your caster and camber are backwards the ( caster ) is the 75* backwards lean on the headtube this is the important one on your trike and hopefully you have it licked now. The ( Camber ) is the amount the headtube leans in at the top towards the center of the trike. This is the part that is givng you fits :D and is also the part that will make little differance on your trike due to the speeds you will be running on it :D.


Rick

OK... (light came on).... My Camber is at 90* with the center of the wheel nut (shaft) and that is OK and I should not worry about it because this is a Cruiser not a Time Machine to break the speed of sound?

I made the Caster to be 75* this evening to try to achieve center point steering :rolleyes4: Right?

I measured with an angle finder like the one in your picture to me (that round floating needle thingy) a factory 20" mountain bike and its angle on the headtube was 65* therefore I measured its Caster...

I hope I am getting smarter?? or Dummer?

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 12:06 AM
Moe if you get a chance over the next couple of days get a decent head on ( from the front and low to the ground ) shot of your trike for me . I have been splainin HVAC to customers for years in ways they can understand and I know we can work through this on your trike.

Rick

WILL DO!!! Tomorrow Morning! YaHoo!! Thanks RICK!!

AWESOME SUPPORT! This place is! Good thing cause I might be driving others INSANE! :rolleyes4:

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 12:08 AM
YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOO you got it Moe thats exactly right and also mind you when you sit on the trike your ( caster ) is going to change slightly to the good side as the Trike settles down when the spring settles .


Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 12:15 AM
YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOO you got it Moe thats exactly right and also mind you when you sit on the trike your ( caster ) is going to change slightly to the good side as the Trike settles down when the spring settles .


Rick

Thanks Rick!

It kept me up all night last night...

I am going to bed now.... I will get you those pictures tomorrow....

I hope that one day I will be able to help someone the way you helped me! so I can pay it forward!

Too bad we did not live in the same city cause I would show you my gratitude! My first bikes were designed by me but welded by a client and he taught me to weld... I then showed my gratituded by giving him in return hours upon hours of free Computer Work...

Good Nite All! :sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:

TheKid
01-27-2009, 12:16 AM
Angles front to rear, (or rear to front)= CASTER
Angles side to side= Camber
Visualize the front CASTERS (wheels) on a shopping cart. When you push the cart, the wheels go in the direction you push the cart. That's called self centering. Without the built in caster, those wheels would react as if they were broken, like on a shopping cart that's hard to push, or hard to keep straight.
So, when you see the term "self centering", it refers to the rearward leaning angle of the kingpin, known as caster. When you see the term "center point steering" it refers to the inward leaning angle of the kingpin. Technically, camber is the inward or outward angle of the wheel itself. Search the net, and you'll find racing wheelchairs and racing hand cranked trikes with inward leaning wheels. Those wheels have a negative camber. On the trikes we generally build, the wheels are at a neutral, or zero camber angle. That is, they are perpendicular to the ground.

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 12:17 AM
Nite Moe get some sleep :D. I think we all pay it forward in our own ways with the tools we have available to us ;).

Rick

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 12:20 AM
Angles front to rear, (or rear to front)= CASTER
Angles side to side= Camber
Visualize the front CASTERS (wheels) on a shopping cart. When you push the cart, the wheels go in the direction you push the cart. That's called self centering. Without the built in caster, those wheels would react as if they were broken, like on a shopping cart that's hard to push, or hard to keep straight.
So, when you see the term "self centering", it refers to the rearward leaning angle of the kingpin, known as caster. When you see the term "center point steering" it refers to the inward leaning angle of the kingpin. Technically, camber is the inward or outward angle of the wheel itself. Search the net, and you'll find racing wheelchairs and racing hand cranked trikes with inward leaning wheels. Those wheels have a negative camber. On the trikes we generally build, the wheels are at a neutral, or zero camber angle. That is, they are perpendicular to the ground.


Kid where are you finding all these shopping carts that actually go staight :D:D. I'll bet I go through half a dozen at wally world before I find one that is actually worth the trouble of trying to shove through the store :D.

Rick

TheKid
01-27-2009, 03:19 AM
You need to go to a supermarket that just opened. You'll find 2 or 3 carts that work perfectly.

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 03:33 AM
LOL ok that makes sense cause the new super duper wally world near me isnt even a year old and already not a cart in the store worth a hoot either the casters are shot or somehow? the tires have been chewed on by angry pit bulls and have flat spots that make the cart rattle like all heck as you push it through the store :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 06:58 AM
Angles front to rear, (or rear to front)= CASTER
Angles side to side= Camber.

PERFECT MAP!!

Thanks TheKid....


Visualize the front CASTERS (wheels) on a shopping cart. When you push the cart, the wheels go in the direction you push the cart. That's called self centering. Without the built in caster, those wheels would react as if they were broken, like on a shopping cart that's hard to push, or hard to keep straight.
So, when you see the term "self centering", it refers to the rearward leaning angle of the kingpin, known as caster..

AH..... Caster=Self-Center


When you see the term "center point steering" it refers to the inward leaning angle of the kingpin.

AH... Camber-Center Point Steering"

Did I get it? I really did not get it in my head but if the above is right I can make a map and like accounting Debits and Credits I could eventually get it right...

At first the credits and debits in my mind was the same way... until I did the following map:

Credit=Red
Red=Minus
Minus=Decrease

Debit=Black
Black=Plus
Plus=Increase

An Account could be a Foundation of a Credit or Debit. If it is a Credit then to increase a Credit you have to add an other Credit. To decrease an Account that has a foundation of Credit you have to add a Debit to it.

Once I took away the terms and replace it with the basic Math we learn in primary school (Plus and Minus) I was OK...

So in this case of the Trike:

Headtubes Leaning Back at 75*
Headtubes Leaning In at 15*

That would be a PERFECT WORLD HU??? but not! It now depends on My wheels and Tires right? How about the position of the crossbeam on the main tube that has a factor to it to??? ;)

A 2 wheeler is so much more FUN..... :scooter:

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 10:11 AM
This is what I did and how I did it...

First level the Main Tube and the cross tube (for front wheels)
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R01.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R02.jpg

Now... Angle the caster at 75*
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R03.jpg


But I think I now see the problem...... when I turned the frame that is now at a caster of 75* I also noticed the wheel's axle goes at 75* instead of staying at 90* RIGHT???
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R04.jpg


So that DREADED weird looking ANGLE that Brad first mentioned is CRUCIAL!!! The one that I am having such a Nightmare with!!!

I put the trike back as it was and took these shots
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R06.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R07.jpg

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 10:20 AM
So I used Windows Paint to show this:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R09.jpg

In order to achieve this I need that first weird angle that Brad talks about in the first part of designing the front end...

ARGH!!!

I messed up my headtubes!!! because I did not understand it and because I saw some trikes with 90* Headtubes.... what a Genius I am!!

I am going to try to salvage this mess by going to a Low Rider TWO Wheeler!!!

SirJoey
01-27-2009, 10:56 AM
In order to achieve this I need that first weird angle that Brad talks about in the first part of designing the front end...
I messed up my headtubes!!! because I did not understand it and because I saw some trikes with 90* Headtubes.... That's exactly right, Moe. It's doing that, cuz your headtubes are still at 90*.
Once you angle them for the center point steering, all will be right with the world! :D

Otherwise, your method of getting your caster set, was good! :punk:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 11:18 AM
Moe we havent given up yet .I will say first you are never going to make a turn that tight on a tadpole. Second the angle that you are seeing when you turn the frontend that far ( of the axles ) is what is going to cause the steering to try to return to center this is what will keep the trike stable. I think we can save this pretty easy . I think at this point your best bet would be to cut the steering beams off of the headtubes . Ok now we are back to square 1 . Cut new steering tubes the same length and slip them into your couplers . This is the beginning not the end :D.The ends the headtubes will attatch to need to be ground off at an angle ( lets say 10* this will mean your angle finder will be pointing at 80* when you hold it against the end of the steering tubes. This means you can acurately get the same angle on both sides.Ok now you have your ( camber ) . Take your time with this on both sides ( grind a little then test with the angle finder then grind some more till you have it where you want it . This will take some time maybe a day per side if you take your time maybe not that long but ( dont rush it ) . Ok were halfway there :D. The next thing we will go after is to weld the headtubes back onto the steering beams :D. Ok now we are back in 1 piece so to speak see that wasnt that bad :D. The next thing to go after is your caster angle . I would go for 80* of ( caster ) on your trike This is the really easy part becouse all you have to do is turn the steering tubes get your angle and drill the holes again dont rush it take your time . I will bet you can get this right with a little extra time and most important ( patience ) .


Rick

savarin
01-27-2009, 11:31 AM
So I used Windows Paint to show this:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R09.jpg

In order to achieve this I need that first weird angle that Brad talks about in the first part of designing the front end...

ARGH!!!

I messed up my headtubes!!! because I did not understand it and because I saw some trikes with 90* Headtubes.... what a Genius I am!!

I am going to try to salvage this mess by going to a Low Rider TWO Wheeler!!!

only when looking from the front.
You still do not have the head tubes pointing to the wheel contact patch so from the front your head tubes are vertical at 90' change them to this first http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/recumbent/R06.jpg,
Once you have changed the first pic to show the new positions then set this angle up and the wheel axle should turn keeping parallel with the ground
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/recumbent/R04.jpg

Something else to consider, does the front boom require angling upwards to give sufficient heel clearance with the ground when pedalling?

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 11:36 AM
Moe we havent given up yet .I will say first you are never going to make a turn that tight on a tadpole. Second the angle that you are seeing when you turn the frontend that far ( of the axles ) is what is going to cause the steering to try to return to center this is what will keep the trike stable. I think we can save this pretty easy . I think at this point your best bet would be to cut the steering beams off of the headtubes . Ok now we are back to square 1 . Cut new steering tubes the same length and slip them into your couplers . This is the beginning not the end :D.The ends the headtubes will attatch to need to be ground off at an angle ( lets say 10* this will mean your angle finder will be pointing at 80* when you hold it against the end of the steering tubes. This means you can acurately get the same angle on both sides.Ok now you have your ( camber ) . Take your time with this on both sides ( grind a little then test with the angle finder then grind some more till you have it where you want it . This will take some time maybe a day per side if you take your time maybe not that long but ( dont rush it ) . Ok were halfway there :D. The next thing we will go after is to weld the headtubes back onto the steering beams :D. Ok now we are back in 1 piece so to speak see that wasnt that bad :D. The next thing to go after is your caster angle . I would go for 80* of ( caster ) on your trike This is the really easy part becouse all you have to do is turn the steering tubes get your angle and drill the holes again dont rush it take your time . I will bet you can get this right with a little extra time and most important ( patience ) .


Rick

OK.. let me see if I got it right? I did a Windows Paint Job:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/R10.jpg

Is this what you mean? Will this make the trike Steer? with the 2 heels top camber 10* inward? Meaning " /------\" like those athletes wheelchairs?

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 11:41 AM
WOW!! "savarin".....

DAMN Good Visual!!! THANK YOU!!!

To your question... No... There is enough room for peddling.. Will give you height after work this evening from the ground to the main tube.

Thanks!!!

I Hope this works cuz I am not far from doing a 2 wheeler.. LOL!

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 11:44 AM
You got it Moe now if you really want to have some fun with this . Once you have the 10* as you have shown above take your grinder with a cutoff wheel and cut a slot ( dont go all the way through) into the angleiron right in the corner under your headtubes ( where we talked about putting ( gussets ) by cutting a slot ost of the way through but not all the way you will be able to bend the wheels back out to 90* . Then just reweld the area where you cut the slot . This wil not effect the strength since we are going to put gussets in this area anyways .Do this before you turn the steering tubes for the caster angle and you will have accomplished what Savarin was showing :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 12:47 PM
You got it Moe now if you really want to have some fun with this . Once you have the 10* as you have shown above take your grinder with a cutoff wheel and cut a slot ( dont go all the way through) into the angleiron right in the corner under your headtubes ( where we talked about putting ( gussets ) by cutting a slot ost of the way through but not all the way you will be able to bend the wheels back out to 90* . Then just reweld the area where you cut the slot . This wil not effect the strength since we are going to put gussets in this area anyways .Do this before you turn the steering tubes for the caster angle and you will have accomplished what Savarin was showing :D.

Rick

Yikes... this just got complicated again... so doing the camber at 10* and caster at 80 or 75* is not enough?? I have to do that Cursed Weird Angle on that Headtube stem?

YIKES!

And cutting the angle iron at the 90* angle? about 3/4 of the way and then bend it? Is that what you meant?

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 12:51 PM
Yep Moe thats what I meant go up from the bottom corner of the angleiron and cut a groove in the corner most of the way through . This will let you pull the wheels back out to a 90* angle after you have welded the headtubes back to the steering tubes at the 10* angle then simply reweld the area you cut. After this you can add the gussets we talked about before which will add strength to the area .You could also make the cut on top of the angle iron if its easier to get to than the bottom.

Rick

SirJoey
01-27-2009, 01:00 PM
And just think... I get to go through all of this exact same crap in the very near future,
when I attempt to build the RR Quad Mod for my Deltoyd! :eek:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 01:04 PM
Joey aren't you glad we are dragging Moe through it first that way you will have an easy map to follow :D.

Rick

SirJoey
01-27-2009, 01:29 PM
Joey aren't you glad we are dragging Moe through it first that way you will have an easy map to followPretty much what I was thinkin'... :jester:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 02:08 PM
Joey aren't you glad we are dragging Moe through it first that way you will have an easy map to follow :D.

Rick

Thanks Guys!!

Moe the ginnypig... :jester:

OK I think that I got it... Good thing I kept a spare set of tubes just in case.. I hope that I can save the Headtubes...

I am at work so time is short..

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Moe just remember take your time and tripplecheck things and if your not sure ( before you make it permanent ) hop on here with a picture and ask us :D. We may save you some headaches . I love ice storms lost internet there for a while.


Rick

SirJoey
01-27-2009, 02:52 PM
Looks to me like Moe's the only one actually gettin' any work done around here.
The rest of us seem to be wastin' the entire day away, bantering ideas about,
& exchanging idle chatter, while life passes us by! :rolleyes4:

Man, SOME of us need to GET A LIFE!

Huh? Who, ME? :innocent:

No, I know, it sux being home-bound by the weather, but still... ;)


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 03:03 PM
LOL Joey I am fixin to brave the icy roads to take the eldest children to work then maybe I will come back to my warm garage and get some work done 52* warm riiiiiight .


Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 03:23 PM
LOL Joey I am fixin to brave the icy roads to take the eldest children to work then maybe I will come back to my warm garage and get some work done 52* warm riiiiiight .


Rick

Moe's got A.D.D. the mind without brakes! and here it is a FREEZER at -22 celcius!! NORTH POLE Weather! I HATE WINTER!!!

These old bones cannot take it!

TheKid
01-27-2009, 03:38 PM
So I used Windows Paint to show this:
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/R041Small.jpg

In order to achieve this I need that first weird angle that Brad talks about in the first part of designing the front end...

ARGH!!!


What you see in the pic is correct. As long as there is caster, when making a turn, the wheels will angle downward toward the rear. It doesn't matter if the kingpins are vertical or inclined as far as camber is concerned, what you see in the pic will always occur with caster. When turning, the inside wheel turns slower than the ouside wheel. Weight also shifts to the inside wheel. So in effect, the inside wheel is almost like a pivot. There is slightly more weight on the inside wheel. With less weight on the outside wheel, it can turn more freely, which is what you want. However, wheel scrub, which is inherent because the inside wheel will rub against the pavement diagonally while still spinning, increases. It's especially noticeable audibly at slow speeds. Introducing center point steering greatly reduces wheel scrub.
You can camber the wheels like a racing wheelchair or racing trike, but the tires will be riding somewhat on their sides. For a trike not used for racing, it's better to have the wheels at a neutral camber angle, which is 90° to the pavement. Having center point steering is not an absolute must for slower trikes. (or quads) However, most tadpoles, such as Greenspeeds, are designed to go in excess of 30 mph. At those speeds, excessive wheel scrub becomes dangerous. Ackerman must also be within a desired range to avoid excessive wheel scrub. There are measurements for all these variables that some consider necessary, but in reality, a few degrees one way or the other don't matter much. As a matter of fact, Brad had to reset the caster angle on the Streetfighter, because what is considered optimum proved to be too much for that design. Too much caster can actually lift the outside wheel off the ground.
It appears, as Savarin stated, you have too much caster. With no center point steering, I would set it no more than 8°. With your weight on the trike, it will increase to 9 or 10°. Even that may prove to be excessive. Just remember that as little as 2° of caster will allow self centering.
Another thing to consider is the weight of the rear triangles you're using to hold the wheels in place. The faster you go, the more that weight has the effect of increasing, especially on a tadpole, because a lot of your body weight is on the front wheels.
Before you rebuild the entire front end, try the trike out for a while with a small amount of caster You may find it's just fine without center point steering. the American Tricruiser has no center point steering, and there are few complaints about it. I rode one, and I find the handling is OK, but the center of gravity is a bit too high. Without caster, it does have a tendency to drift a little, but it's not that bad.
Oh, BTW, if the tie rod is binding, put a few washers under each tie rod end to give more clearance. It's easier than bending the tabs.

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 03:42 PM
I did a hell of a job welding the headtube innershaft to the frame and angleiron that I do not know if I will be abel to cut it to bend it???
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/SFFE01.jpg

I wanted to make sure that it would be strong!! ARGH!

It is also welded on the top and as you can see it looks like it is all in one peice... OUCH I hope I can pull this off without damaging the frame??

TheKid
01-27-2009, 04:15 PM
Like I said earlier, just reduce the caster and leave it as is. It will still be a fine ride. Center point steering isn't a must. Many cars and trucks built with I-Beam front suspension lacked center point steering into the 70's

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 04:33 PM
Like I said earlier, just reduce the caster and leave it as is. It will still be a fine ride. Center point steering isn't a must. Many cars and trucks built with I-Beam front suspension lacked center point steering into the 70's

OK... Like now I am really confused???

It feels like I was put into a round room and told to go piss in the corner but there are no corner in a round room....

I leave the inner tubes of the headtube as is? at that 90* ?

Do I still do the 10* camber and the 80* caster???

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 04:42 PM
Moe what Kid just said is actually true before you go cutting up the whole front end of your trike try reducing the amount of caster down to say 85-90* on your trike . I will only dispute one thing when you go to turn the actual weight transfer will be to the outside wheel not the inside wheel the rest of what he said is correct . its actually a simple matter of gravity as you turn the outside wheel by gravity will be forced to take more weight ( which is why if you watch autocross races at all ) quite often either the front or rear tire will actually lift off the ground . Your trike is most likely never going to see speeds quick enough to lift the inside tire off the ground . There have we really confused you now :D.

Rick

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 04:44 PM
OK... Like now I am really confused???

It feels like I was put into a round room and told to go piss in the corner but there are no corner in a round room....

I leave the inner tubes of the headtube as is? at that 90* ?

Do I still do the 10* camber and the 80* caster???


Nope dont worry about the camber just lessen the amount of caster to around 80-90* .Closer to 90* would probably be better .


Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 05:04 PM
Nope dont worry about the camber just lessen the amount of caster to around 80-90* .Closer to 90* would probably be better .


Rick

OK the first time, after trying everything at 90* I did 85* and still the same problem...

That 2 Wheeler Low Driver sounds better and better!!

Where is Bard in all of this??? :confused:

I am really confused now....

Would it not be better to start again with new inserts? Like Savarin showed me?
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/savarin48/recumbent/R06.jpg,

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 05:11 PM
Moe by all means you could start with new inserts such as Savarin showed and we discussed earlier but it may not be needed . Certainly it couldnt hurt anything to have true Ackerman steering with the proper caster and camber . I am still interested in how the front wheels spin when lifted off the ground just to make sure you are not binding right there and thats the whole problem.


Rick

trikeman
01-27-2009, 05:22 PM
You have more faith than me Rick... my other bikes were all factory angled headtubes... I just took them and worked with it... This project I have to guess it by eye??? This is me:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/moe.jpg

Those glasses are thick! Classic Coke Bottoms... and I have not had my eyes checked for over 25 years... I was told that they are deteriorating every year...

That is why I work with Levels... and Angle finders.. and angle tools... ;)

I will give it an other shot next Friday but it will be from scratch again as I do not want to have a mess on my hands and trying to do the 75* this evening ruined the inside tube... but the outside tubes are ok...

I can certainly empathize with that eye thing. I have had one operation on my eye for a partially detached retina that was caught when I went to get a new set of glasses, and have had the other eye laser welded (that is what I call it) for some blood vessels that were popping. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with your eyes besides needing new glasses, and a good doctor can also tell a lot about your health otherwise from looking at your retinas etc. You might want to consider seeing a good opthamologist - who knows they might even be able to make you a set of glasses you can see with.

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 05:23 PM
Moe by all means you could start with new inserts such as Savarin showed and we discussed earlier but it may not be needed . Certainly it couldnt hurt anything to have true Ackerman steering with the proper caster and camber . I am still interested in how the front wheels spin when lifted off the ground just to make sure you are not binding right there and thats the whole problem.


Rick

Rick... The wheels spins great, they turn great... The problem I am getting is when I turn the wheels at 2 oClock I get a turn of almost 1 oClock and I hear the tire rubbing as if it is not turning to the right or left....

The tirerod ends (the peice that holds both wheels when they turn) is perfect for both wheels when they are strait but when I turn at 2 oClock one seems to go over more... If I try to adjust so that both are the same at that angle then when straight it is no longer straight... I tried the rod at the end of the frame and then where the brakes are (in the middle of the frame)

With a caster of 75* when I turn I can feel the trike leaning towards the turn so my guess is 75* is too much?

But like I pointed out on my first try after the 90*.. I did an 85* and still the same...

The front end cross beem is under my knees making the wheels at that lengh.. is it too far because I looked at Kat's Video ridding it and the wheels are about at that lengh under her knees...

My recumbents who have limitations with steering and can only turn max to 2 oclock can make a wider turn than this abortion that I built!

So my guess is I will be going more straight when I want to turn and then I end up on the morning news:

"Brilliant Bike Builder Turned himself right under an Tracktor Trailler on Main Street.... Fiancee said "Why did I tell him NOT TO QUIT?" :1eye:

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 05:31 PM
LOL OK Moe you talked me into it lets start over fresh with new tubes :D.This time though before welding anything in solid tripplecheck angles and such as you go and if your not sure take a picture and show us before you ge back to this point of agravation :D. I also understand A.D.D. I supposedly have it as well as my eldest son and one of the other drawbacks to it is diving in head first and going 90 for nothing until you burn out . Try taking it slowly . I would bet you wont be riding it next week anyways due to weather not due to the fact you dont want to ride it :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 05:38 PM
LOL OK Moe you talked me into it lets start over fresh with new tubes :D.This time though before welding anything in solid tripplecheck angles and such as you go and if your not sure take a picture and show us before you ge back to this point of agravation :D. I also understand A.D.D. I supposedly have it as well as my eldest son and one of the other drawbacks to it is diving in head first and going 90 for nothing until you burn out . Try taking it slowly . I would bet you wont be riding it next week anyways due to weather not due to the fact you dont want to ride it :D.

Rick

:D OkeeDoKee!!

If at any point in my post others may read that I am pissed off... I am not! I turn every frustrations into COMEDY! otherwise I would had taken the sledge hammer to those front wheels.... (a cheap hammer do not want to damage my new one!)

I really want to get this one right cause it does look AWESOME! I could always sell it as a STILL Work of Art! Na.... :D

So this eveing... I am going to try to do the cutting of the inner tube so I can get that Weird Angle first... I can always take a picture at 90* and race 2 flights of stairs to my computer and use the old trusty Windows Paint Program and Darw that IMAGINARY LINE!!!!!! (I swear it attacks me in my sleep!) :D

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 05:43 PM
I can certainly empathize with that eye thing. I have had one operation on my eye for a partially detached retina that was caught when I went to get a new set of glasses, and have had the other eye laser welded (that is what I call it) for some blood vessels that were popping. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with your eyes besides needing new glasses, and a good doctor can also tell a lot about your health otherwise from looking at your retinas etc. You might want to consider seeing a good opthamologist - who knows they might even be able to make you a set of glasses you can see with.

Yes I know what you are saying.... I guess I was traumatized in my mid twenties at the last visit when the doctor forced my head in some glass telescope that hurted my eyes like crazy to the point that the nurse was pushing on the back of my head so I would not move my eyes out of this mid-evil torture machine!!!

There is an optical place across from work... I should go!

trikeman
01-27-2009, 05:52 PM
A modern eye exam doesn't hurt at all. They have come a long ways in 25 years. Its a lot easier to weld when you can see.

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 05:57 PM
Moe I dont think your pissed yet :D I figure we have at least 2 more attempts at getting this right before you reach that point :D. I think you can get the 90* ok without having to run up and down the stairs just take your time and work slow :D. I will let you in on a little secret though . I have to rework one side of the BabyTadpole as I looked at it closer while working through yours and one sides camber is off . Not a big deal I will just use my 3" cutoff tool to make a cut most of the way through like we discussed on yours and bend it into position and reweld it .

Rick

SirJoey
01-27-2009, 06:03 PM
CASTER, CAMBER, RAKE, TRAIL, ACKERMAN ANGLES, CENTER POINT STEERING, TIRE SCRUB, TOE IN, TOE OUT, TOFU, 80*, 90*, 100*,

YOU GUYS ARE GIVING ME A HEADACHE!!!
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3173/computerheadbangerrt2.gif


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 06:06 PM
Well Joey you know you could always go outside and work on your trike :D:D:D>

Rick

SirJoey
01-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Well Joey you know you could always go outside and work on your trike :D:D:D>Forget that! I may never work on one again! :eek:

Richie, I'm returning your Quad Mod plans... please refund my money, ASAP!

*** Sir ICantTakeAnyMore Joey ***


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 06:15 PM
ROFLMAO Joey we are having fun right :D. Ok I get a quick break I have to go get the eldest kid from work :D yahooooooo off to slide on the ice we go . I think we lost Moe though maybe he got off work and is headed home :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 06:40 PM
ROFLMAO Joey we are having fun right :D. Ok I get a quick break I have to go get the eldest kid from work :D yahooooooo off to slide on the ice we go . I think we lost Moe though maybe he got off work and is headed home :D.

Rick

YEP! Just got home now... Stopped at the drug store for food... NUKE Time Super Fast meal cause I am having so much FUN and off to the dungeon!

Hang in there Joey... It is like Rick said previous... The A.D.D. thing got in the way I thought I was going to outsmart everyone else by doing it my way... **choke** I think this is the part where my Humility should kick in??

Richie Rich
01-27-2009, 09:19 PM
Richie, I'm returning your Quad Mod plans... please refund my money, ASAP!OK, Joey....I promise that you'll get everything that's coming to you....!!

...Richie.....
.

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 09:40 PM
OK Rick and Company... :D

I cut the angleIron on an angle and I got it at 10 to 11 degrees.... I think it is 79* on the meter after I made sure the fram and tire was at 90*
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/NA001.jpg

If I draw an Imaginary line in Windows Paint! I am still OFF!!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/NA002.jpg

ARGH and ARGH and ARGH!!!

Both frames have the same angle!! I made sure so they are the exact same...

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 09:43 PM
Moe no problem I would say that is close enough let me play with the picture real quick and just see where the centerline ends up remember not building a rocket :D . ive me a minute to play with it in paint be back shortly :D.

Rick

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 09:46 PM
Ok Moe I went and grabbed a straight edge and held it up to the Pic you are just a little off center towards the inside of the tire so I think you will be fine . Your line from paint is actually a little off center to the outside of the tire so I think you are in good shape if they are both the same awesome. Time to start working on the beam :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 09:49 PM
Ok Moe I went and grabbed a straight edge and held it up to the Pic you are just a little off center towards the inside of the tire so I think you will be fine . Your line from paint is actually a little off center to the outside of the tire so I think you are in good shape if they are both the same awesome. Time to start working on the beam :D.

Rick

So... it need to go in towards the tire or out towards the tire?

THANKS RICK!

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 09:52 PM
Ok Moe I went and grabbed a straight edge and held it up to the Pic you are just a little off center towards the inside of the tire so I think you will be fine . Your line from paint is actually a little off center to the outside of the tire so I think you are in good shape if they are both the same awesome. Time to start working on the beam :D.

Rick

Look at the second picture under the first one I did a line and I am way off... the tube needs to go more away from the tire in the second picture... but that would make the angle in the 75* or 73*?? causing 25* to 22* ??

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 09:52 PM
Moe are they both the same now you have both of them at 79-80* ?

Rick

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 09:54 PM
Each trike is differant Moe yours is even more differant becouse you are actually using 2 rear frames for your front end . I think you will be fine with the angle you have now as long as both are the same .

Rick

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 09:56 PM
Look at the second picture under the first one I did a line and I am way off... the tube needs to go more away from the tire in the second picture... but that would make the angle in the 75* or 73*?? causing 25* to 22* ??

Moe your paintline is actually off some as well it is actually off to the outside of the tire a little . The actual angle I used a straight edge to see going down the inside edge of the headtube and I think you will be fine where you are.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 09:56 PM
Moe are they both the same now you have both of them at 79-80* ?

Rick

Yes... 100% the same I put them head to head causing the oposite to line up and the are both the same... took the angle thingy and they measured 80*-79* hard to see when your face is flat on the cement floor.. It is a miricale that my cheeks did not froze solid on that floor! WOKE ME UP!!

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 09:59 PM
Ok they are both the same you are good you have SOME camber now time to move on to the next step unless of course you have to quiet down for the night out there in the basement . I know its almost 9:00 here not sure about there :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 10:00 PM
Moe your paintline is actually off some as well it is actually off to the outside of the tire a little . The actual angle I used a straight edge to see going down the inside edge of the headtube and I think you will be fine where you are.

Rick

O-TAI!!! Then I am off to the Dungeon to put the tools away as it is almost 10pm here and I did not slept much again last night!

Tomorrow night I will weld them.... I cut off 3/4 of the bottom braket before I did the angle cutting to try an other Einstein Idea!! THU!!! did not worked! so now I screwed up my bottom frames!

Was it Michael Angelo that said "A Masterpiece comes out of an EMBARRASSING MISTAKE??"

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 10:02 PM
Ok Moe go clean up we'll be here for a while :D. Tomorrow is a new day and you are on your way so take lots of niquil so you can sleep tonight and not toss and turn all night thinking about the next step :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-27-2009, 10:04 PM
I now have no bottom frame just 2 EXHAUST SQUARE HOLES!!

ZOOM ZOOM.....
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/NA003.jpg

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 10:09 PM
Thats Ok Moe we can cut off some of the old tubes and flatten them out to make patch pieces to fit :D.

Rick

TheKid
01-27-2009, 10:25 PM
What you have now is exactly what I have on my Streetfox. The handling actually improved with more control at higher speeds. The change came when I installed wheels with drum brakes, which altered the position, pushing the wheels outward. There are those who recommend the kingpin pointing slightly inside the tire patch rather than true center point steering. I would absolutely recommend beefing up the weld of the tube to the frame.

rickairmed
01-27-2009, 10:36 PM
What you have now is exactly what I have on my Streetfox. The handling actually improved with more control at higher speeds. The change came when I installed wheels with drum brakes, which altered the position, pushing the wheels outward. There are those who recommend the kingpin pointing slightly inside the tire patch rather than true center point steering. I would absolutely recommend beefing up the weld of the tube to the frame.

Kid I already walked Moe through adding a gusset to the front head tubes several pages back . The gusset I showed him will be a triangle under the headtubes over to where the axles bolt up just behind the axles :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-28-2009, 12:16 PM
OK Rick...

This evening I am going to weld the new angle on the inner shaft of the headtubes.

Then I am going to try to save the headtubes....hopefully my welds will not give me too much problems as I usually make them quite heavy and solid!

I already have the new sets... I want to do the same that I did with the original.. mushroom them on the headtube side to give me more room on the headtube and better connecting coverage and easier fishmouth.

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 03:17 PM
Moe I wish you luck my freind we have been without power since 1:30 this morning . I will check in on you today most likely durring the time the news is on as I am running off a power inverter off of my truck . I hope one of the others can get to you quick if you need help but I will be in to check up on ya :D.


Rick

MoeMac
01-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Moe I wish you luck my freind we have been without power since 1:30 this morning . I will check in on you today most likely durring the time the news is on as I am running off a power inverter off of my truck . I hope one of the others can get to you quick if you need help but I will be in to check up on ya :D.


Rick

Wow! Talk about being dedicated! You are the best Rick... but do not worry take care of your end first... It must be hard without power and I am not just talking about computer.... Heat, lights, Cooking and all the rest!

A few years back in Montreal they had an ice storm and they were without power for close to a week!

The old days they were used to it but us today we are so dependent on electric...

No welding I would go nuts!!

I think I have my work cut out this evening just welding the new angles and cleaning the head tubes.. Tomorrow I hope to be ready to do the new inserts!

THANKS RICK!

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 03:50 PM
Moe not a problem I wouldnt leave ya hangin right now :D. I have a huge gas grill I taught SWMBO how to do all kinds of stuff with it durring our week without power after Hurricane Ike . We will get by but as I said I will be here sporadically till power is restored hopefully wont be to long only 100,000 out right now we had 600,000 plus out after Hurricane Ike :D. I still had a big screen TV and internet then and plenty of food on the barby :D. The good news this time is I dont have to buy ice too keep the freezers and fridges going just go outside and scoop up whatever I need LOL.

Rick

greenevegiebeast
01-28-2009, 04:02 PM
Moe not a problem I wouldnt leave ya hangin right now :D. I have a huge gas grill I taught SWMBO how to do all kinds of stuff with it durring our week without power after Hurricane Ike . We will get by but as I said I will be here sporadically till power is restored hopefully wont be to long only 100,000 out right now we had 600,000 plus out after Hurricane Ike :D. I still had a big screen TV and internet then and plenty of food on the barby :D. The good news this time is I dont have to buy ice too keep the freezers and fridges going just go outside and scoop up whatever I need LOL.

Rick

be ware the yellow ice.

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 04:06 PM
LOL GVB so far we still have hot and cold water so wont be any yeller ice :D. I do actually have a gas water heater at least . Nothing like Hot HUMID heat to keep the house warm :D.

moejosteve
01-28-2009, 05:14 PM
looks like a widespread storm kickin' axx and taking names! We lost power the fisrt time yesterday morning around 9, back on at 11, then off again last nught at 6 and still out. Moved the family to a local hotel with power as my youngest long term project is on life support equip. He's not critical, but needs the power to run his gear...

Supposed to be 40f tomorrow and should kill off the ice. Apparently there are 100k+ homes in the region without power...

You guys take care.

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 05:16 PM
Steve hang in there . We are stcking it out at home for now but will see what happens as things progress :D. Take care of those long ter projects.

moejosteve
01-28-2009, 10:11 PM
Steve hang in there . We are stcking it out at home for now but will see what happens as things progress :D. Take care of those long ter projects.

Thanks Rick, will do. I stopped by the house and the neighborhood looks like a war zone. Trees down everywhere, grey skies, quiet, eerie... Check out the pics. The stripped pines in the background are 30 footers with trunks about 24" at the base. They were really mature and nice trees. There goes all the shade on the west side of my house...:( Looks like I'm going to be busy this weekend! Hello CHAINSAW!:punk:

http://s300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10/racer-19/?action=view&current=IMG_0570.jpg

http://s300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10/racer-19/?action=view&current=IMG_0568.jpg

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 10:18 PM
Steve I havent gotten to taking pictures yet . I lost one pine and a bunch of BIG branches out of the maples . I would knock them all down if it were not for the shade in the summer . I am thrilled I took down 4 leaning pines this summer thank goodness as they would have been down in the driveway and who knowes where else.

MoeMac
01-28-2009, 11:02 PM
I am so sorry to have read that you guys are getting it bad.... I guess when you screw mother nature as mankind has for the last 5 years she is getting her revenge!

Here... the snow started and that is good cause it is breaking that forsaken cold spell... but they are announcing some freezing rain real soon for quite a long time period so I imagine that we will be getting hit the way you guys have also!

MoeMac
01-28-2009, 11:09 PM
Well Rick....

I came home and went right at it!!

I managed to save the headtubes (Thank ***!)... Then I did the new inserts the way I wanted them to be... Mushroomed at the headtube end and round at the other:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/NA04.jpg

Then I made sure that I still had the same angle as per last night and I added a gusset first at the perfect angle... made sure first by cutting it at the angle I had 80* Then welled the gusset first and then the cut... I still have to grin and double check on the weld...
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/NA02.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/NA01.jpg

This is the finished wheel with the new angle:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/NA03.jpg

Now tomorrow I got to do the other one!

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 11:13 PM
Moe we are making due here . I got diesel for the turbo heater this evening and actually just shut it off for the night its 84*F in the hoouse right now so that should hold us for the night it wil of course cool off in the house overnight but as everybody settles down under blankets and comforters they wont notice till they get up :D . I will fire up the turbo heater again in the morning and warm it back up for a while . SWMBO laughed earlier she said my life hasnt changed I sti have my laptop out here and my TV LOL. I will admit its a little cooler out here in the garage now but it does make it easier when they whine in the house its cold I laugh and tell them come on out to the garage :D.

Rick

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 11:25 PM
Looking good Moe your headed in the right direction :D.

Rick

MoeMac
01-28-2009, 11:34 PM
Looking good Moe your headed in the right direction :D.

Rick

Thanks Rick... It means a lot!! Well... it is 11.30pm here and I am off for the night so that tomorrow I can finished the other wheel... then It will be the takling of the angle of the new tubes! YIKES!!

The angle on the tubes has to keep that wheel on the ground at 90* right? If I understand it correctly from the manual... :D

rickairmed
01-28-2009, 11:51 PM
Yep Moe thats right . I will be off here shortly for the night time to shut the Truck down which means no electric till morning :D. After the news so I can see how good they say things are here :D.

Rick

savarin
01-28-2009, 11:59 PM
looking good Moe.
Looking forward to see the final machine.

newrider3
01-29-2009, 12:03 AM
Looks VERY nice.

moejosteve
01-29-2009, 10:02 AM
That's nice work Moe. I'm glad someone's getting some hacking done during this season... I'm looking forward to your end work!:punk:

MoeMac
01-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Thank You to all that has been with me through this roller coaster ride!!

I sincerely hope that the StreetCruiser turns out the way it is in my mind...

Your comments and support has been by far the BEST!

:sunny::sunny::sunny:

rickairmed
01-29-2009, 12:47 PM
Ok Moe I'm back for a little while :D just fired up the van and got the heater going in the house and of course the TV and Puter so I can check the news . I got woken up a little while ago to its 54* in this house you need to start the heater :D had to put gas in the Van first LOL.

Rick

MoeMac
01-29-2009, 11:01 PM
OK... Hi all... Hope all is OK with you Rick?

This evening I finished the other wheel as I did last last... It went good and I double check the welds on both wheels and had to do a few touches...

Then I fishmouth the new inserts and I taked them at four places to make sure they would not move... Then I put them in and did a 80* caster... my camber is 80* as well... I tried the 75* caster but it is very hard tobe sure because I do not want to damage the new inserts with holes where it is not to be....

I will say one thing for sure.. the little that I tried it seemed to work better than before!! YiPee!! but I still will not know...

I did noticed that the left wheel (if you face the front) is off a bit due to the angle of the insert.. I was sure that I did both insert with a camber of 80* same as the inner tubes...

Here is the pic:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/2_Fix01.jpg

Let me know?
Thanks!

rickairmed
01-29-2009, 11:06 PM
Moe from this angle both front wheels look like they are out more at the top than the bottom but I have a feeling that is the camera playing tricks on our eyes. I would say if it seems to be rolling better keep going with the build . You can always go back before paintt and tweak things that need tweaking :D.

Rick

rickairmed
01-29-2009, 11:08 PM
One way to tell for sure take a tape measure and measure from the ground to the wheel studs ( axles ) on both sides of both wheels that will tell you more than the camera.

Rick

MoeMac
01-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Moe from this angle both front wheels look like they are out more at the top than the bottom but I have a feeling that is the camera playing tricks on our eyes. I would say if it seems to be rolling better keep going with the build . You can always go back before paintt and tweak things that need tweaking :D.

Rick

Hi Rick...

No it is not the camera... The top it out ward a bit... will that make a difference? and how? I am pretty sure that it would wear the tires right?

rickairmed
01-29-2009, 11:16 PM
Moe on a car or truck it would wear the tires funny and yes on your trike it will wear the tires funny but I dont think it will be bad mostly due to the low cruising speeds.

Rick

MoeMac
01-29-2009, 11:19 PM
Moe on a car or truck it would wear the tires funny and yes on your trike it will wear the tires funny but I dont think it will be bad mostly due to the low cruising speeds.

Rick

Should I really try to fix it up a few more degrees? I can do it tomorrow evening... I only put 4 small welds on each one...

Also I am very confused on what angle I should do the caster? Because I do not want to do what I did to the other ones... I scrwed them up bad...

rickairmed
01-29-2009, 11:23 PM
Moe yes if its only 4 small tacks go ahead and cut them loose ( 1 at a time ) and do a little more grinding and fitting.

Rick

rickairmed
01-29-2009, 11:25 PM
Moe I wouldnt push the caster past the 80* you have now I think that will be plenty for your trike.

Rick

MoeMac
01-29-2009, 11:34 PM
Moe I wouldnt push the caster past the 80* you have now I think that will be plenty for your trike.

Rick

OhKeDoKe...

I shall do that tomorrow evening (grunt!).... and OK an the caster at 80* therefore I will set the holes tomorrow evening after I got the wheels at a perfect 90* (straight)....

Welll... I am off to bed... got a service call tomorrow! YUK! At 52 I am so tired of it! I want a LIFE!! :D

Good Nite Rick and Thanks a Million!!!!!!

rickairmed
01-29-2009, 11:36 PM
No problem Moe have a good niht I'll check in on you tomorrow :D.

Rick

rickairmed
01-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Ok Moe we just got power back wont guarantee it will last but for now we have full power . Almost made a mess in my shorts when the compressor kicked in :D. I have to run to a neighbors and get their furnace up and running but I'll be back shortly.


Rick

MoeMac
01-30-2009, 11:22 PM
Never Ever Ever AGAIN!!! do I want to design a 2 wheel steering again!! :mad:

Man am I PISSED!

I went at it again today after my service call and that was at 4pm and it is now 11pm and I just got up from the dungeon!

I finished fixing the angles for the wheels because the top part was going out... I fixed it and now the wheels are straight as far as I can tell...

I am not going to take them apart again because they told me they would go on STRIKE!!! So I made them permanent! (welded the buggers)

Then I did the casters at 80* and made them permanent as well!

Now camber is 80* and caster is 80*

Tried it with the tire rod linking the two.. and tires were still rubbing causing problems steering!!

So i read what Brad wrote: "It took him 20 bloody times!! to find the right place to put the tirerod???"

OH Good ***!!! I tried THREE!!!! and I said: "***? is this entertaining you???? Cause it s not me!!!"

Brad wrote that "You do not need to be a Rocket Scientist" AH!!! I beg to differ!! My puiny grade 8 is not worth anything!

So I thought what am I doing wrong??? So I took 2 regular 16" front wheels... not the exact same... and tried it ... then I got better result. I looked and the difference was only the inner lung was mounted because the wheel was narrower!

So I BUTTCHERED! my Front Frame AGAIN!!!
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/09123002.jpg



This is to make the wheels ride on only one lug.... It improved it!!! BUT!!!!! Again!!!! at a certain degree turn the tires are scuffing due to that DAMN ROD!!

Perfect for the straight!! turn like an 18 wheeler OK!! but make a sharp turn???? I WILL GET HIT BY A VEHICLE!! ARGH!!!!!!!



http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/09123001.jpg
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww38/moe_mac/09123003.jpg

Is it because the Tires are TOO WIDE???? But then a CAR has FATTER Tires!!!

Did you get that I am PISSED?? :D :D

rickairmed
01-30-2009, 11:29 PM
ROFLMAO welcome back Moe :D. I was starting to wonder where you were hiding. Ok first heres the bad news cars have motors and quite complex suspension systems compared to our Trikes . I would say part of your problem at this point is the width of your tires but I dont think it will be an issue after you get it done . Put a crank on that thing some handlebars a chain and take it for a cruise . I'll bet you are fine .

Rick