Wheelsmith HD Wheel Caveat

[TheKid]

I was all set to modify my HD Wheelsmith wheels to thread on the DW. The first one, which I bought quite a while ago, has a hub similar to those used for coaster brakes. The newer one has a narrow hub that is too narrow for the 5/8" axle. So I'll be taking the new one apart and replacing it with a wider hub from a 24" wheel. I already have a pair of 20" wheels that I modified to thread on, which will be used for lowering the gear ratio when I carry heavy loads. The 26" wheels are for cruising.
I mention this because in earlier threads I suggested using the Wheelsmith HD wheels because they are 2.1" wide and have heavy duty 12ga. spokes, which will hold up without increasing the flange width, when using my thread-on method.
If anyone decides to go this route, make sure you order the Wheelsmith's with a coaster brake to get the wide hubs.

[vegan777]

Where do you get such wheels.

Brad suggested BMX hubs that are 3" wide but I have not found any yet.

I'd like to know more about threading on wheels.

The DW way, if you bend a rim, you are down and out for awhile.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thank you,

[TheKid]

I got mine from bikepartsusa.com, but lately, I had some problems with them. They were around $25 each, but I don't know the prices from other suppliers. I found a workaround for the wheel without taking it apart. It involves grinding the axle down just a bit two inches from one end, so it fits into the hub. Or I could order a miami sun 15 mm axle, which will fit in the hub. This will involve welding the axle to the hub, but the way I'm mounting it, it will go on the non drive side, and can be easily removed and replaced. The drive side will probably have the thread-on wheels, because I don't want to disturb the freewheel.
I've been working on a plan that will utilize this new system for 20" wheels. I'll be done in about a week, and will give details then.
I discussed the thread-on method in the old forum, and you can search there in the meantime. I think it was in the "ideas and suggestions category." I also posted a method of building your own hubs in the old forum. The reason I wanted to use Brad's alternate method, is because you can buy disc brake adapters that thread on the freewheel threads on rear hubs. It also reduces the amount of work in that you don't have to drill out the hub washers, or mount a disc brake adapter to the axle. More details with pics next week.

[SirJoey]

I'm eagerly awaiting those details & pics, Kid. (Especially the pics)

You always seem to have great ideas & mods, so I'm looking forward to some more wheel options, hopefully before I get to that point on the Kroozer (KC), my next project. So far, I've been planning to build them the same way I did on the Deltoyd, which worked great, but I'm definitely open to suggestions.

Unfortunately, I've already bought a pair of front wheels to use on the rear of it, so it looks like using the thread-on brake disc adapters is out, unless I buy 2 MORE wheels (gasp!), but I may just do that anyway, cuz I sure like the thought of mounting those brake discs like that. It would save a lot of work, & they'd run true, unlike mine, which STILL rub a little! (And I'm all about the "save a little work") I like the "removeable wheel" factor, too.

Keep us posted! :D

[TheKid]

I was looking at your wheels, and it seems to me that all you have to do is replace the washer on one side of the hub with the disc brake adapter that you made. That would solve the alignment problem. In fact, I may do that myself instead of buying the disc brake adapters, which have to be epoxied to the freewheel threads.

[SirJoey]

...but the washers I used are on the INSIDE of the hubs.

Still, maybe I could weld the brake disc adaptor over it on the outside anyway. What do u think?

[TheKid]

Oops. What I mean is, weld the outside of the hub first. Then slide the disc adapter on the axle, and weld it to the hub and the axle. You could use the freewheel adapter to hold it tight to the hub and weld it to the hub first, then the axle. Or, you could buy inexpensive shaft collars to hold the adapter tight to the hub, so you don't risk getting spatter on the freewheel.

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-186/3-fdsh-4%22-Shaft-Collar/Detail

[SirJoey]

Not bad Kid, not bad. NOW, you're talkin'!

[TheKid]

Actually, there's something I overlooked. If you weld the disc adapter on the hub first, you have to make sure the hub flange is wider than the disc adapter at all points, or you won't be able to lace the wheel. It would probably be better to use two shaft collars to hold the disc adapter on the axle, then weld the adapter to one of the collars. Slide the collar on the axle so the disc adapter is next to the wheel. Remove the set screw on the collar, then use a thin bit to drill a small pilot hole into the axle. You only have to go about 1/16-1/8" with the pilot hole. Remove the adapter, and expand the pilot hole with a 1/4" bit about 1/4" deep. This will give you a dimple to hold the set screw securely. The collar will give you a bit more clearance for the pockets on the sides of those cases on the rear. I just ordered some collars for myself. As soon as they arrive, I'll be installing them and post some pics.

[SirJoey]

BRILLIANT! Even better!

Well, you just cost me some more money. Now I have to order shaft collars! (LOL)

Seriously though, welding the brake disc adapter to the collar sounds like the best method I've heard yet. A bonus is that once the calipers are mounted, one could slide the disc adapter exactly where needed to center the disc in the caliper!

This also opens up more options for placement of the calipers, as well!

ALL HAIL TO THE KID! :D

Well dude, I liked your idea so much, that I decided not to waste any time. I went ahead & ordered 'em only minutes ago! The collars are cheap enough, but the shipping was a ghastly $9!

[TheKid]

I ordered a bunch of collars, some rod ends, and misc. bearings. Shipping was still $9. I always figure it's best to order a bunch of stuff you may need later to take advantage of a standard shipping cost.

[SirJoey]

I know what u mean. I always do the same thing, myself. Right now though, I'm fairly well stocked-up on everything that I think I'll need for the next several projects, so unfortunately, I couldn't find anything else to order along with the collars.

I did however, stock up on THEM, buying 8 of 'em!

[Patrike]

SJ & TK

If you guys keep up this brain stromin -- buy the time I am ready to build It will go together like putting icing on a cake.

Get the the spatula baby. Thanks

Patrike

[Patrike]

Found this, looks like a nice hub 2.7in flange to flange, 48H --at 36$ I might jump.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HU308D00-Dimension+Bmx+Front+Hub.aspx

Have a look -- any input appreciated.

Patrike

[TheKid]

Those are alloy hubs. I don't know what method you would use to either weld them to the axle, or weld nuts to them. They're great for front wheels on a tadpole or the Streetfighter.

[Patrike]

I have seen some wheels with 144 or 72 spokes. Are they any stronger. The thing that put me off was the Chome plating -- not sure l like that or that it would stay on very long.

Example site:

http://www.lovelylowrider.com/item.asp?x=541

Patrike

[Odd Man Out]

The higher spoke count wheels are for the "bling freaks" (no offense to all bling freaks out there...). The higher spoke counts do offer higher strength but if you look at all those who are throwing themselves off hillsides on BMX bikes, you won't find these monsters on the bikes they ride. Again, all for show -- little go.

[SirJoey]

Right you are, OddMan! I think when you reach the point of 48 spokes on a 20" wheel with 14mm axles, you're prolly about as likely to wreck the frame itself, as the wheels!

[TheKid]

I have 68 spoke wheels from a chopper I found. I liked the way they looked, so I bought 2 more for my quad. I put them on my original tadpole, but I liked the black wheels with the orange paint on the tadpole I have now. I'll be using them on another project in the future. I had no problems with the chrome, and I used the quad on wet and snowy roads quite a bit.
Since this is the wheelmaster thread, I sadly add that they are a bust. One worked out fine, but the newer one has to be dismantled and the hubs have to be drilled out to fit a 5/8" axle. The whole idea was to avoid building wheels by using a heavy duty factory built wheel. I have a few hubs I can use using the alternative method in the DW plan, as Joey and Richie did, but I'll be using the thread on method. I'm just waiting for a few items to be delivered tomorrow.

[SirJoey]

Received the shaft collars today, & wouldn't you know it? Wrong size! They sent me 5/8" instead of the 3/4" ones I ordered! Checked the invoice. Invoice is right, parts are wrong. Figures...:(

[Patrike]

That makes allot of sense and was basically my gut feeling when I saw them. All chrome and gold -- more for show. I never watched allot of BMX events but the ones I have seen, yes, never saw those wheels. Now, thats not to say that they would not look good on a DW or Kyoto if you were taking it to events just for showing off -- something to think about!! hmmm, maybe..

Patrike

The higher spoke count wheels are for the "bling freaks" (no offense to all bling freaks out there...). The higher spoke counts do offer higher strength but if you look at all those who are throwing themselves off hillsides on BMX bikes, you won't find these monsters on the bikes they ride. Again, all for show -- little go.

[SirJoey]

Oh yeah, I definitely agree with THAT, Patrike. Nothing wrong with flashin' out your ride! We all do it to some extent, some more than others.

I'd like to bling out mine with some pike nuts & a few other little goodies, but I can't really spare the $ right now, just for show. Notice, I said, "right now"! :D

[TheKid]

They're designed for show. If you notice, they're sold from chopper dealers. Most of those bikes aren't designed for speed or stunts. Just look at the other accessories - ape hangers, twisted bars, extended forks etc. All stuff that adds weight and serve no real function other than looks.

[SirJoey]

Hey Kid. On building these wheels, no matter what method we use, there's just no getting around taking out all of the spokes & re-lacing the wheel, is there?

That's really the part I dread the most, especially on these 48-spokers! I've got the wheels, but I haven't de-laced 'em yet, hoping you could come up with a miracle, but personally, I don't think it's possible, as any method I'm aware of is still gonna involve welding, which I wouldn't dare attempt with the spokes still in the wheel!

I mean, I know you're good, but even you can't work miracles, right? LOL!

[TheKid]

As long as you can get the cups out, and a 5/8" axle will pass through, you could weld the nuts into the hubs. The 48 spoke BMX hubs are usually alloy and as far as I know, would need aluminum nuts MIG or TIG welded in. 26" wheels, if not heavy duty, would require disassembly to make the hub wider. 20" wheels don't need to be disassembled, because they are inherently stronger than 24" or 26" wheels. To weld rhe nuts in, I experimented with some old rusty wheels. If you completely cover the spokes with 3 or 4 layers of aluminum foil, and tack weld one side, flip, tack weld the other side, wait 30 seconds, and repeat the process 4 or 5 times, you'll have no problems with distortion or burning the spokes.

[TheKid]

Two days were lost on the hubs, trying to get one hub apart so I could use the thread on method with it, since the Wheelsmith wheels didn't work out as I hoped they would. After taking the Wheelsmith's apart, I found that the hub ends on on of the hubs had to be forced on, or drilled out. I have no large enough bits left, so I ended up using Brad's alternative method, and welded the hub ends to the axle. I'll take the time later to make my own hubs. In the meantime, I have two 68 spoke 20" wheels that the thread on method will work on, so when I get the time, I'll set those up. I painted the hubs, and tomorrow night I'll lace them. There's a lot left to do tomorrow in the daytime, like setting up the steering and making the handlebars. Wednesday I'll finish the seat, assemble, and test ride.