differential

[Patrike]

Hi

Found this looking around today -- I have emailed them to see if they sell this diff -- waiting . When I saw it I immediately thought of the DW.

http://www.sidewindercycle.com/depot/cycle_views/4.htm (http://www.sidewindercycle.com/depot/cycle_views/4.htm)

Later
Patrick

[AtomicZombie]

That would be a great diff. My guess for price is... $1500.00

Brad

[SirJoey]

I think I can live with the "split axle" setup, per the plans! :)

[Pagan Wizard]

Same here Joey.....especially with the hefty pricetag on that differential.

[Patrike]

Well Brad -- I think your pricing is more in line with one of those expensive Shimano gear hubs -- but I was thinking a higher #$ myself then what they emailed me.

They wrote "the differential has a splined drive which our axle systems have t connect tothe differential. If we were to sell the combination they would cost approximately 300$ + shipping. We generally have only what we required made. So it would be only as we have availability."

Still a little steep for my budget.

In my looking around I also found this diff for 170$.

http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/218239A.html?id=9NaAWoJc

I am told it is easy to modify.

Patrike

[AtomicZombie]

Yes, that is a much lower price than I guessed! The go-cart diff. looks like it would also work, but I think you will need 4 pillow blocks to support it. Looks like you would need bearings at the ends of the axle as well as right between the diff. hardware.

Brad

[Odd Man Out]

I think Brad's split axle design is the shiznit. It allows you to attach many varied cassettes on the back and experiment with gearing options... what are you left with if you use a differential? Brad's split axle design is much lighter in weight. The only advantage I can see for using a differential would be to try to get in the Guiness world record book for the heaviest DW. Isn't the selling point for a differential is that it allows the left and right axles to rotate seperately???? How is that different from Brad's current design? What is so hot about a differential anyway??? :p

Odd Man Out (formerly Laus Deo)

[Richie Rich]

Isn't the selling point for a differential is that it allows the left and right axles to rotate seperately???? How is that different from Brad's current design? What is so hot about a differential anyway??? :pI use a differential on my 'Chopper' trike (Click on the address below to see it). In addition to allowing the trike to turn easily, you also get power to BOTH wheels. If you were riding a split axle during slippery conditions (ice, mud, snow etc.), you'd only have power to one wheel. With the differential, you can drive your way out of nearly anything.

Yes, it does add weight, especially if you want to add a multi-speed intermediate hub. I've built trikes with both types of rears and prefer the split axle method of the Delta Wolf.

However, if money is no object, you could get a Samagaga DG72N rear with multi-speeds.

......Richie >>

[savarin]

I use a differential on my 'Chopper' trike (Click on the address below to see it). In addition to allowing the trike to turn easily, you also get power to BOTH wheels. If you were riding a split axle during slippery conditions (ice, mud, snow etc.), you'd only have power to one wheel. With the differential, you can drive your way out of nearly anything.

Yes, it does add weight, especially if you want to add a multi-speed intermediate hub. I've built trikes with both types of rears and prefer the split axle method of the Delta Wolf.

However, if money is no object, you could get a Samagaga DG72N rear with multi-speeds.

......Richie >>
Isnt the problem with a diff the fact that once one wheel slips in mud, snow, ice etc the other stops driving? It does on every car Ive owned.
I've opted to go for both wheels driving but the fastest wheel on the corner free-wheels around, if one wheel slips then the other will still keep power on.

[TheKid]

If your car doesn't have a limited slip diff, (positraction) one wheel will spin on a slippery surface, the other wheel just sits there. With positraction, such as on Richie's trike, both wheel get equal power on slippery surfaces, and the inside wheel freewheels when turning

[gbbwolf]

http://www.yst-corp.com.tw/new/differential01.html

Patent still pending be interesting to see a price i'll email them see when And where it will be available.

[dharouff]

Kid, in my truck I have a Alburn Locker. Acts like a locked differential and is a heck of a lot cheaper than a 4x4. With good tires it's a tank. It only releases when you turn. Beetterrr than a posi !!!!

[TheKid]

I'd say so. Nothing like something that's locked in place. As for trikes, I found this in a forum:

If your a machinist or a welder you can do it. You just need a HD u-joint from the right wheel to the diff. Haase is using the Gommier Tricycle differential unit with an O-ring inside to preload the spider gears. You can order them from Gommier in Taiwan they come with axle tubes, bearings, diff, hubs, axles, and disk brake mounts for about $100.00 US. Several of our industrial trikes at work use the differentials. Call Lawrence at Gommeir and ask him he has all the details about the differentials.

I'm about to contact the company now. I'll keep you guys posted.

[gbbwolf]

Ok so i emailed juliana at yst here is what she sent me.

Dear Nelson

899-1 and 899-2 are totally different type, 899-1 is normal differential with a rear fram, two hubs, two axles and a disc break. 899-2 is supension function, axle can be up and down 15 degree each, with two axles and hubs. 899-1 is still available, please don't worry.

The cost for 899-1 is USD 140.0/ FOB Taiwan. 899-2 is USD 210.0/ FOB Taiwan.
Trial order is 5 sets each.

That 899-2 will go 15 degrees up or down heck you could ride one side on a curb lol

So from taiwan to Indiana is 210.00 per unit including shipping.
And 140.00 for the solid axle unit.

But you have to order 5 at a time.
Anyone got $1050.00 LMFAO

140.00 bucks for the one with the brake really isn't all that bad IMHO

Looking back at that one for 160 bucks with no axles. These seem thrifty lol

[AtomicZombie]

That is called a "ratchet drive", and works the opposite way that a diff. does. It does drive both wheels, but the vehicle will still suffer from the "hard to pedal around corners" effect, but on both wheels rather than one.

For traction it would be worth building if you were worried about a wheel lift.

Brad

[TheKid]

That's the exact setup I had on my quad. If I pedaled through a turn, as Brad says, it made it hard to turn in any direction. Going to a lower gear on an uphill turn didn't help. To remedy the situation, I kept the cogs on the jackshaft the same size, and put two identical clusters on each rear wheel. Then it was just a matter of shifting one of them to a lower gear when turning. For the most part., I only shifted the left side into higher gears unless I needed the power of positraction. Going up a straight hill, with power to both wheels, I didn't need to shift to the lowest gears, as I had to with the single drive wheel. I was also able to pull heavy loads much easier. My next quad will be basically the same, but I'll be using 2 SA 8 speed internal hubs to eliminate using deraillers on 20" wheels.

[TheKid]

I had a 22 tooth chainring to a 34 tooth rear cog. With the single wheel drive, in second gear from a standstill, (22T chainring, 24T cog) right uphill turns were easy. Left uphill turns were difficult, even in the lowest gear. After installing a jackshaft with 3 24t cogs, and the same 7 speed freewheel on the right side as the left side, from a standstill, it was actually easier to make a left uphill turn with the right side in second and the left side in first. Applying equal power to both rear wheels had the same effect as using a solid rear axle with no differential. The Crank-It Mountain Quad had a similar, albeit more advanced design. The rear wheels could rotate individually under coating conditions:

http://www.crank-it.com/quadfeatures.html#finaldrive

Final Drive: The Mountain Quad’s final drive is accomplished through a chain driven positive traction rear drive unit. Under straight ahead driving conditions the posi-drive unit transmits torque to both rear wheels equally for optimum traction. Under coasting conditions the posi-drive unit has individual freewheels which allows each rear tire to rotate independently of each other.

[TheKid]

The hubs didn't cost me anything, so that's not a factor. I found on my old quad that any loss of power due to the jackshaft was more than compensated by having equal power to both rear wheels. There was also less stress on the frame and drivetrain by splitting the energy. Also,being able to switch the drive wheel when making left uphill turns greatly reduced the effort needed. I noticed a lot less stress on my tadpole since adopting the dual chain system. There was a noticeable loss of power with the long chain ant pulley on the drive side of the chain, as well as the inherent chain alignment issue with all derailler systems. The performance improved with the 8 speed Nexus, IMO due to the perfectly aligned chains. Traffic conditions around here make internal gear hubs a blessing. I no longer get caught in too high a gear when I have to stop short.
My condition has gotten worse, so I can't work every day on my projects, and it's getting harder and harder to run errands on the Streetfox. So the priority is the Hauler for now, because it will have a front hub motor. They're illegal in NY for now, but the law enabling them should be finally passed after seven years according to a state senator. The price of gas bostered the global warming argument. Even if the law doesn't pass, I'll call it a wheelchair, which NY law describes as any wheeled vehicle, with or without an electric motor , that a disabled person uses to go from place to place. The wheelchair law includes mobility scooters.
I'll probably end up making a delta with posi instead of a quad to save weight. I'd like to have a totally HPV, and the hauler with the hub motor will be too heavy, and with 2 drive wheels, the new vehicle should be easier to pedal uphill than the Streetfox.

[bambuko]

That subject is dear to my heart, because of where I live there are lot of hills (to get home I need to get up 10%-12% ) and I definitely need plenty of traction.
I am concerned about wheel slipping on the differential equipped Wolf (not to mention the price of diff), so my thinking is that limited slip effect of "ratchet drive" would be a better choice?
In googling the subject (in preparation to my build starting) I have found and interesting solution:
MK 4 Shimano Cassette Body (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/trykit/Gallery/images/09%20MK%204%20Shimano%20Cassette%20Body.jpg)
It is used thus:
Trykit 2wheel drive (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/trykit/Gallery/images/04%20Trykit%202wd%20conversion.%20Mk%202%20Campag% 20Body%2C%209%20Speed%20campag%20in%20Higgins%20ax le.jpg)
Prices are rather steep (although not as bad as recently when £1=$2 - now it's more like £1=$1.8)
prices (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/trykit/prices.htm)

Anyway..., just in case it helps anybody else, I thought I share the links

Chris

[AtomicZombie]

I will bet you that even up the hill during a rain, you could not make the 1 wheel drive slip even if you tried.

Even on gravel in low gear, I could just barely throw stones.

Brad

[bambuko]

You are probably right Brad :) about not being able to slip one wheel drive
and it is likely mis-understanding caused by me...
What I am talking about is what happens to diff equipped vehicle if one wheel hits ice, mud etc ie all the power goes to the slipping wheel and you are stuck
What I am after is limited slip effect of "ratchet drive" even if it is not the best in turns (all the power goes to the slower turning wheel).
Given, what I am after, I thought that the 2wd cassette was pretty neat :rolleyes:

Chris

[AtomicZombie]

I , now I understand. A ratchet drive would be perfect for ice. Had one on my very first trike (shown in the junkyard gallery). Rode that puppy all winter.

Brad