Now its a Marauder

[John Lewis]

I have started on a Marauder reloaded while I gather the bits for the Kyoto Cruiser. Can't let the welder get cold and its a while since I built the Wolf. My excuse is too much fun riding the Wolf.

Anyway, I couldnt find a suspension back end so I'm making it. I have cut down a normal rear end to suit. The old BB will be the pivot. It just happens that 30mm ball races are a neat fit in the old bearing cups. Might need a bit of bearing mount too. I've put a bearing in each cup and a spacer tube between them to hold them in place. When I do up the cups all is good. :)

The outside ends will need two short spacers and then a bolt through the lot will hold it together.

Only problem so far is how I will hinge it to the main tube in a neat and workmanlike manner. The BB width will be about 82mm including the spacers and the main tube is only 42mm.

Haven't decided whether to use a spring or an elastomer. I have a spring but its heavy. I think the elastomer would be lighter.

I envisage a capped tube on the chainstay piece sliding loosely into a bigger tube on the main frame with some elastomer material in it. It cound be left loose so I could fold the back end under for transport as is done with the Moulton folder.

This is what Ive managed so far.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/stays2.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/stays1.jpg

John Lewis

[GregLWB]

John - check out the bottom bracket pivot on this site. I don't know if this is what you're thinking of but it was the first thing to pop in my head (or maybe that was just a stroke:jester:) when I saw your post.http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/frame/tubing/tubing.html

I'll be interested to see how you engineer your way through this.

Greg

[John Lewis]

Hi Greg,

Had a look at the Gaerlan site. My idea is nothing like that.

I will have sidepiece to front frame, spacer, BB cup, ballrace, Long spacer, ballrace, other BB cup, spacer, other sidepiece. All held together with a bolt.

At the moment the sidepieces are the problem as the BB is wider than the square tubing.

I'm leaning toward two pieces of angle shaped and drilled then welded to form a U shape. THis will be butt welded to the end of the square tube and then faired in and strengthened with some welded on bits of plate.

Nothing done today. Had to work on a mates old piston pump. Don't know yet if I can save it.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

So a bit more progress. I have puzzled out how I will mount the rear suspension assembly.

I used a piece of muffler tube and two plates. Hope the tube is strong enough.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/rear-mount.jpg

Here it is trialed to the fishmouth.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/fishmouth.jpg

It will fit something like this.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Mockup.jpg

Looking at how it will all go together. I want a fairly reclined seating position. I need to make sure there is room for the wheel.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/mockup2.jpg

Next post will show the bearing setup.

I think this is going to work out. Only thing is that spring is darn heavy about 1kg bit over 2lb. I'm still thinking about using an elastomer. That should be a lot lighter.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

If you are wondering about the bearing, this is how it fits together.

The old bearing cups are an almost perfect fit to 30mm bearings.

The bit of threaded rod will of course be replaced with a nice high tensile bolt. Spacers keep the bearing in place. Yes Joey, I will clean off the rust.:jester:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/bearingincup.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/cupsbearings.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/fitted.jpg

I'm looking forward to finishing this build.

By the way, this is the first real try out of my new little dc stick welder. I Like it.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Today I found time to set the frame parts in the jig and tack weld the pieces together so I now have the rear end attached. Still to make the attach for the spring. I'm looking for a lighter spring this one is 1300lbs/in. I note in the plans Greg's is only 550. I suspect the springs may be different lengths so I don't want to weld the final attach yet.

One problem I may have is the return chain line may foul. If it does I'll add an idler at the pivot. Also there won't be much clearance between the chainstay and chain on the small sprocket.

The weather became very hot and I stopped work early. Didn't want to weld in the heat due to fire danger. Tomorrow I'll get most of the rest of the frame complete weather permitting.

Mulling over the seat construction and found this on BROL. May give it a try.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showpost.php?p=457150&postcount=13

Another view.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46726
John Lewis

[Mitdan]

Thanks John,

For both the seat info and the bearings. I was working on using a BB for a pivot and the route I was going was not nearly as good as what you came up with.

[savarin]

brilliant plan with the bearings John.
How tight do they sit in the shells?

[John Lewis]

brilliant plan with the bearings John.
How tight do they sit in the shells?

Hi Charles,

They are a free but snug fit. They just drop in when all is nice and clean. When I do the final assembly I'll probably give them a dose of Loctite Super Bearing Mount. Given how little they will move in service I suspect its not really necessary though.

Today I made and welded on the spring mount. Managed to get it out of line first try and had to cut it off and redo but its fine now.

Hope you've dried out up there.:sunny:

John Lewis

[savarin]

beautiful weather now. Very warm, gentle winds, paradise.
Just wish I could get motivated in the shed. Did very little this weekend.
Just 1 steering rod although did go for a ride sat and sun, first time out since christmas. I am so out of condition.

[SirJoey]

Man, that is really slick, John!
WTG! :punk:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[Radical Brad]

Another great garage hack, thanks!!

Brad

[John Lewis]

Another great garage hack, thanks!!

Brad

Thanks Brad.

Well I spent quite a bit of time on the build today. I completed welding up the suspension and part of the boom and the bottom bracket adjustment tube.

I had trouble with the welder today. The power seemed up and down and one second it would be too hot and the next it wouldn't hold an arc. Bit odd as up until now it has been very good.

I was really annoyed when I found something had moved and the boom is angled slightly to the right. So tomorrow I will make some fine hacksaw cuts, straighten, clampdown and reweld.

I also ended up with the pedal tube height at 10 3/8" instead of 11" but that should not be a problem.

Well I know you lot like pictures so here are a couple. The first is some views front and rear and you can see the warping. It's not as bad as the photo looks. That dog in the photo is our 5 month old Tessa. That little zombie has really grown.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/triple.jpg

The second shot shows the completed suspension assembly. I jumped up and down on it and it works just fine.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/springer.jpg

Weight wise at this stage with the rear wheel from my SWB it weighed 9kg.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Man, that is really slick, John!
WTG! :punk:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Thanks Joey. Got my come uppance today though. Managed to weld a twist in so tomorrow I have to fix it. Don't know how it happened as it was in the jig and should have been straight.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Here's a question for you who may have tried it.

I can't seem to find a nice 20" fork but I have a nice light 26" one with brake bosses.

So what are the pros and cons of cutting it down?

Im thinking ofshortening it and welding the dropouts back on. I thought I could leave a short length of leg on the dropout and push it up into the cut part. Then braze or weld it as appropriate.

What do you zombies think?

John Lewis

[Radical Brad]

I did this on the TradeWinds Tandem and it works perfectly...

http://www.lucidscience.com/temp/forkchop.jpg

I actually liked the quality of the shortened 26 inch fork better than using the 20 inch BMX fork and might do this more often.

Brad

[John Lewis]

Thanks Brad. That's just what I needed to see.

I think Im going to do the seat and BB next then I can see how long I need the BB mount tube. No point in making the bike any longer than I have to.

I managed to straighten things up. First I cut the weld and redid it but it didn't make much difference even though it was clamped. My friend a good welder called and I showed him what I'd done. He suggested grinding off some weld on one side and running a hot bead to try to shrink it straight. worked like a charm. A good trick to remember I think.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

A little more progress yesterday after being sidetracked with other things.

Thanks to Brad's reply I decided to try my hand at shortening a 26" fork to 20"

Here is the result. As you see it it weighs just over 1kg. These forks are SOLID.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/fork-mod.jpg

Here is the shortened headtube down to 3".

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/headtube.jpg

and a closeup of the rewelded dropouts after a bit of sculpting with the diegrinder.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/dropouts.jpg

I saw a wooden seat on brol. I posted the link previously. So I've decided to try it. I made the pattern from MDF. I had a piece of 6mm ply so decided on two laminations for about 1/2" thick. That stuff wont bend easily. I soaked it in a bath of hot water and clamped it to dry. That's what you see. When dry I will take apart, glue and reclamp. Then I'll cut to shape on the bandsaw. I'm using exterior grade white glue. If this works I'll probably get some 3mm ply and laminate more layers with epoxy as it will be stronger. This is just a trial. So far so good.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/seat-moulding.jpg

Today I hope to get the BB done. I'll then set it up, sit on it and decide how long I want the BB adjustment tube. Soon I'll have a rolling frame.:)

John Lewis

[SirJoey]

VERY nice work on the fork, John! Looks original! First rate!

I'm especially interested in seeing how your seat comes out.
That's the kind I wanna attempt sometime this Summer.

LocoLarry sent me some underlayment foam for it, but so far,
I haven't even started building the form yet.


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[jimFPU]

Definitely interested in the seat design here...

Always looking for a better seat.

[John Lewis]

Thanks for the comments Joey and Jim.

Yes, the fork was pretty easy. Cut to length. Tack up in universal jig I made. Then I took it out of the jig and mounted it in the vice with an old front hub so I could get at it for the final welding. Added a bit extra to fillet it then about 30 sec with the die grinder and it was done.

The seat is using a jig of three pieces of MDF cut to shape and screwed to a base. Its shortcomings are difficulty in clamping but I'll manage.

I had to give the ply a good soak to get it to conform. I think I read somewhere to use ammonia in the soak water but I didn't do that. I definitely think more thinner plies is the way to go but that will mean more glue. Expense!

So far is good. All I have to do is coat with glue and reclamp.

Stay tuned for the results.

Just stopped in the middle of writing this. Friend came in with jammed BB. The bearings were shot and also the spindle. Don't know how she rode it so long. I've ordered parts and she'll have to wait till they come.

I completed my BB assembly for the Marauder this morning. Just got to finish the seat or mock something up and I can get the front placed and welded.

John Lewis

[TheKid]

Great work John.

[John Lewis]

Thanks Kid,

I glued up the seat this afternoon with exterior grade pva glue. I'll leave it for 24 hrs before I take off the clamps and we'll see what happens.

I had to use the grain across the seat to get it to conform and I think it might be too flexible. I suspect I'll need to go to several thin layers and change the ply orientation between layers. Perhaps I should cut it left and right 45 degrees then it would stiffen up when glued. Decisions, Decisions.

I was pleased with the fork. It is almost identical to my one and only new, unused chromed fork that I'm saving for a special project. Now I know how, I won't lack for a nice fork again.:jester:

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Pulled the seat from the jig and cut it to shape. Here's how it looks.

Now I have to clean it up, seal and paint. Amazing how strong it has become.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/shaped.jpg

I think I'll do a separate thread on the seat.

John Lewis

[GregLWB]

That is looking great John. Have you though about maybe putting some t-nuts or something similar while you are laminating layers together? That way you would be able to mount it in a way that would be removable without having any connectors show on the top. Of course, that is assuming that you are going to use it without cushioning the top. Let us know, enquiring minds want to know.:jester:

Greg

[John Lewis]

That is looking great John. Have you though about maybe putting some t-nuts or something similar while you are laminating layers together? That way you would be able to mount it in a way that would be removable without having any connectors show on the top. Of course, that is assuming that you are going to use it without cushioning the top. Let us know, enquiring minds want to know.:jester:

Greg

Well I did think about that but I wasn't sure where to put them so I didn't laminate them in.

I can still do them by drilling a stepped hole, fitting the nut and then gluing a piece back on top.

For this one I think I'll use bolts and penny washers right through. Added insurance as The white glue joins may try to creep. With a layer of foam and then the ACS10 ventisit material it will be comfortable enough.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Woo Hoo,

Finally, at last. Gee I'm slow. This took twenty days.

Yes it's true. I have finally got Maruader to the rolling frame stage.

Here are some shots. Boy this thing is long.

Rolling frame

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Marauder1.jpg

Front view

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Marauder2.jpg

Rear view

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Marauder3.jpg

John Lewis

[Radical Brad]

Well, you can't rush a good thing.... and it's lookin' good!

Brad

[GregLWB]

Woo Hoo,

Finally, at last. Gee I'm slow. This took twenty days.

Yes it's true. I have finally got Maruader to the rolling frame stage.

Here are some shots. Boy this thing is long.

John Lewis

LOL! In the pictures you took from the front it does look really long!:jester: How long is it tip to tip. My LWB commuter is 8 feet from front of tire to back of tire. The length really smooths the bumps in the road though.:)

Greg

[TheKid]

Finally, at last. Gee I'm slow. This took twenty days.


Don't feel bad. It would have taken me 20 weeks. Lookin' good!

[John Lewis]

LOL! In the pictures you took from the front it does look really long!:jester: How long is it tip to tip. My LWB commuter is 8 feet from front of tire to back of tire. The length really smooths the bumps in the road though.:)

Greg

G'day Greg,

Well I got a chance to measure it today. This mother is one half inch less than nine feet. a whopping 8' 11.5" long. Oh boy. and it would have been longer if I was tall. I shortened it as much as I could.

Thanks to Brad and TheKid for replying too.

Yes Brad, I think it will be pretty nice. I find I'll have to fit a small idler on the return side of the chain at the suspension pivot to keep the chain out of the chain stay . probably use a derailleur pulley. Other than that it's fine.

Yes Kid. seems we always plan more than gets done. Too many other distractions or the need to :sleep1:.

I'll be away a few days now due to a funeral in the city so that will be another hold up (800 km round trip). Good thing though is I might find a bike shop and manage to get some bits I want that I can't find locally.

John Lewis

[GregLWB]

Sorry for the loss - hope the trip goes well.

Greg

[John Lewis]

Thanks Greg,

The funeral is not family. Its a chap I taught to fly and who subsequently became a good friend. He was instrumental in introducing aluminium ship building to this state and ran a shipyard building big ferries for the international market. When he passed away he was in Singapore preparing to develop a shipyard there. He will be a great loss to the community as well as to his family and us.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Back from the city.
Today I managed to get a bit more done and managed to mount the as yet unpainted seat and finish the steering assembly and bars.

I have now to find a piece of tube for the remote steering rod. 1/2" inch or 12mm is not common here . I have to even order 16mm as a special so I'll be out scrounging. A bit of hydraulic lne might do if I can find a bit.

Here are the latest pics. Sorry about the "busy" background.

Here is a 3/4 rear view

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/first.jpg

3/4 front view

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/three.jpg

Seat and steering assembly.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/two.jpg

I've said it before but this thing is Loooong!

Soon be able to try a coast down test out front as soon as I fit steering rod and a brake.

John Lewis

[GregLWB]

I've said it before but this thing is Loooong!

Soon be able to try a coast down test out front as soon as I fit steering rod and a brake.

John Lewis

Be sure to put side clearance lights on that and the oversize load signs!:jester: ROFLMBO!:jester:

I like the seat and can't wait to hear the feedback on the first 'crash' test. I'll bet it will be really smooth with that suspended rear end.:1eye:

Greg

[Radical Brad]

Lookin' good!

Now I really want the snow out of my way. Marauder was always one of the most fun rides I have had.

Brad

[John Lewis]

Had trouble finding 1/2 tube for the steering rod. Eventually got a piece of stainless hydraulic line today. It was the right price. Free. I had to straighten it a bit. 5/16 threaded ends won't fit down the tube. I could have threaded it direct but stainless is hard to thread with cheap taps.

Instead I went with 1/4 inch rod ends and welded 1/4" nuts to the ends of the tube. I bought a stainless welding rod just for the job. It came out nice. An odd thing was that as the weld cooled the slag cracked clear (watch the eyes) I didn't need to chip and it was all bright and shiny. The rod ends look a bit light but I think they will do the job well enough.

John Lewis

[OCD1]

John: I was looking to use larger rod ends on my build but when my local bearing supplier told me the 1/4" ones were rated at 1500lbs of pull strength I felt confident they would be okay. I did the same as you, used (mild steel) tube with nuts welded on the ends, plenty strong as I have at least 200km on my project with no trouble at all. Yours is waaaay longer than mine, you'll have a blast riding it after the initial learning curve is over. They feel so stable you'll forget you have to balance it at low speed.

Alan

[comreich]

I'm with you on the 1/4" rod ends. Both of my trikes have them and they're working just fine.

[John Lewis]

Hi comreich and Alan. Thanks for that information. Makes me feel a lot happier.

Is your bike a Marauder Alan? If so how did you shorten it? I thought I got mine as short as I could.

Well today was the big Rolldown test in front of the house just as soon as I got that steering rod attached.

Effort one was to fall as I'd not tightened the quill in the stem enough and the bars twisted. That done and away we went. Only Fred Flintstone brakes but its a Gentle slope. An old nobbly tire on the back and the front wheel borrowed from the DeltaWolf.

This thing is dead easy to ride. Way easier than my SWB. The speed wasn't great but it rolled forever. Down the street, around the corner, up the slope to the next street, turn in the road width and coast down around the corner and back to my driveway.

I have two issues to solve. First is trail. I don't like the steering. It is fine round centre but once I turn it tries to tighten up and I have to fight the tendency. This is due almost entirely to excess trail. I expected it as I had the same issue with the Wolf . I'll notch the lower three sides of the weld and reduce the trail just as I did with Wolf.

The second issue is pedal clearance. I pedal with the balls of my feet on the pedals and my heels were brushing the ground. Adjusting the trail will add a whisker of height but perhaps not enough. I may need to go to shorter cranks. That's fine as the ones I put on as rests for the coast down were pretty long. The downside to this is it will make the bike even longer.

Wel I know you lot love pictures so here are some. I'll do a short video if I can find out how and where to upload.

Starting to Roll

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/John4.jpg

Here we come. No Brakes!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/John2.jpg

Close up

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/John1.jpg

Right on By

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/John3.jpg

Sam's First ride on any Bent.

Sam is the young lad from across the street. He took the photos so I let him have a try.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Sam.jpg

Note. No helmets. Legal requirement in Aus so we were breaking the law.:dunce2:

John Lewis

[jimFPU]

You can just see this hint of a bent smile on Sam...now your going to have to build him one!!

[Radical Brad]

Marauder... the great predator of the concrete river! Moving swiftly and silently, always on the prowl for wedgies.

Biking season is almost here again!!

Nice work by the way. Add another slick to the rear, train your legs for a week, and you will be fast as ever.

Brad

[John Lewis]

You're right Jim. After a couple more coasts and growing confidence Sam had the big bent grin. :scooter:

Brad. I have a specialised Fatboy 100psi slick for the back and a Primo Comet 100psi for the front. I need to spoke up a nice 20" rim I have and then go find a suitable rear wheel. That old wide steelie I used for the tests will never do.

As to speed I hope I can go faster than I've ever gone. I'm not that fast really but I'd like to be able to blow off some of the roadies round here who sneer at my bents.

I've stripped the bike for painting. Usually I wait and ride a couple hundred km to make sure nothing needs tweeking or welds fail. I'm confident with this one so I'm going ahead with the paint.

I'm two minds about the trail. It's not that bad. If it improves steering at speed I should leave it alone. Iusually I like nice light steering and a minimum rise and fall of the bike front end when you swing the front wheel. Currently it moves up and down a lot.

Also concerned about the suspension oscillation due to lack of damping. Perhaps a better shock assembly. The one I have came from the dump.

Anyone have any thoughts on these two points (trail and shocky)?

John Lewis

[savarin]

For trail I tried bolting two brackets to the forks in place of the wheel that allowed me to slide the wheel forwards to reduce the trail in increments to zero.
It didnt seem to make a lot of difference but did make me cut the front tube to the steering head tube and weld a wedge in to reduce the fork rake that reduced the trail to what I thought was better handling.
Maybe it would be more informative now I have a lot more experience in riding the machine.

[John Lewis]

That's an innovative way to test it Charles. I might give it a try.

I have found I'm happiest with about 25mm trail and a wee bit of tiller. I also like to reach out a bit to the bars. My arms cramp up if the bars are too close.

This site gives some design rules that I find work pretty well.

http://bikesmithdesign.com/Design/12Steps.html.

I should make a drawing of the bike and superimpose the "rules" to see what I can get.

I found on the Wolf I just had to slit the joint, bend it down and reweld. Think I did that twice before I was satisfied. I didnt need to make a wedge.

John Lewis

[OCD1]

John: My build isn't truely a Marauder as I just looked at the site and designed as I went along. My aim was to build with junk I had on hand and buy as little as possible. Mine will always scrape your heels pedaling around a corner, but if you point your toes slightly when going straight it's never a worry. I measured the road to pedal clearance of a regular mtb and set my BB height the same. To keep mine short: no rear suspension, I sit less reclined and there is about 0.5cm clearance between my pedals and front tire. For rake/trail I just eyeballed the same as a standard mtb, it's very manuverable at low speed and solid when going fast. Why don't you modify your BB mount to raise it up? I wouldn't use shorter cranks as you'll lose mechanical advantage when climbing.

[Odd Man Out]

John: I wouldn't use shorter cranks as you'll lose mechanical advantage when climbing.

My vote would be for shorter cranks with all recumbents. Riding a recumbent is different than a DF and you use some different muscles in the legs. Experienced recumbent riders (and those who don't do the following risk the chance to never become experienced recumbent riders...) don't try to "power" up hills but rather shift down and spin at higher rpm's. Due to the position of the recumbent rider, excessive and repeated pushing on the pedals almost guarantees knee injuries in the future. I personally am quite happy to get up a hill a bit less fast than some and save my knees rather than to let the testosterone take hold and propell me into a limp if not worse for the rest of my life. Recumbents are different and in climbing require a different skill set than riding a wedgie. This has been a public service announcement from yours truly, OMO.

[John Lewis]

Thanks for the rundown on your build OCD1. It gives me something to think about. I had thought of raising the cranks by lengthening the side plates and putting a spacer under the BB.

I've altered the head angle for less trail and cribbed another 3/4" on the BB heigh which may be enough. The trail now is approaching that of a MTB. It is a bit less than the Wolf. I'll try it and see. It's easy to alter anyway.

OMO is right about short cranks. I've been into bents for a fairly long time. I find you can apply a lot of force to the pedals because of the back support. Wiser bentists explained to me about spinning and shorter cranks to save the knees. A high cadence develops power without stressing the knees so much. Short cranks both make it easier to achieve high cadence and lower the amount the knees need to flex. This is a good thing especially as you get older.

I spin between 80 and 120 rpm. Most of the time I spin above 90 rpm. You need to learn to do this by practice but its worth it.

Thanks again to you both for your suggestions.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Finally got back to the bike after the big shed clean up. Got so bad I couldn't move. Sorry no pic.

The parts I ordered arrived so I started to fit out the bike. New Chainwheels and front deraileur.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Derailer2.jpg

I had to make a tab and weld it on to take the rear deraileur. Sorry about the blur.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/der-haanger.jpg

Rear Derailer 8 speed. fitted to hanger tab.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/derailer.jpg

Looking at the chain line. I may have some interference problems at the chainstay and the pivot point.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/clearance2.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/clearance.jpg

I' making up the idler like this. Hard lubron wheel, two bearings and a pair of circlips. I have to make a groove for the circlips. This came from my Logotrike. Logo replaced them with a much better Greenspeed unit because the bearings kept popping out. My circlips will solve that problem. Was going to use the greenspeed one but this will save $30 or so.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/idler.jpg

Now the cabling and I can test ride it with the borrowed wheels. I'm waiting for some spokes to make a new front wheel. I have an Alex 406x16 double wall rim for it. Teamed with a Primo Comet it should be quite nice. Still looking for a matching rear wheel though.

I thought I'd have finished by now but the rest of the world keeps getting in the way.

John Lewis

[GregLWB]

I had to make a tab and weld it on to take the rear deraileur. Sorry about the blur.
John Lewis

Hey John, that is going to be rideable in no time! Looks like good parts too.:)

How did you make the tab for the rear derraileur? Also how did you determine what angle to weld it on? I need to do this on my TourMaster and have been putting it off because I wasn't quite sure how to do so.

Greg

[TheKid]

I couldn't find the link, but there's an article that dealt with crank length in depth. One thing I remember is that the higher the BB is above the seat, the shorter the crank length to help prevent knee injury.

[John Lewis]

Hey John, that is going to be rideable in no time! Looks like good parts too.:)

How did you make the tab for the rear derraileur? Also how did you determine what angle to weld it on? I need to do this on my TourMaster and have been putting it off because I wasn't quite sure how to do so.

Greg

G'day Greg,

I've done 3 this way now. It's pretty simple. If you look at most Derailler hangars you will see that the centre to centre distance is about 1 1/4" between the Derailer bolt and the Axle. The Der bolt is 10mm metric fine.

I make two dots 1 1/4" apart and draw a line between them on a piece of card. Have a look at some bikes and note the angle the Derailer hanger makes to the chainstay. I just eye ball it. Now place your bit of card behind the dropout with the axle dot centred in the cutout as if its an axle. Orientate the line between the dots to the previously noted angle and draw a line round the edge of the dropout. You can now draw in the hanger shape and cut it out. I traced it from another bike originally. Use this as a template to cut the steel. I usually braze them on but this time I arc welded it. I also trimmed off the excess dropout ahead of the hanger after I welded it.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/D.jpg

Here's what it looks like. Maybe you can copy and scale.

Hope this helps,

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

I couldn't find the link, but there's an article that dealt with crank length in depth. One thing I remember is that the higher the BB is above the seat, the shorter the crank length to help prevent knee injury.

I think 25hz has some info on his site. I know he was looking at short cranks and eliptical chain rings too. Not sure where on the site now.

Less knee flex and higher cadence should make a difference.

http://www.fleettrikes.com/

John lewis

[TheKid]

I think 25hz has some info on his site. I know he was looking at short cranks and eliptical chain rings too. Not sure where on the site now.


I shortened cranks using info from his site. I haven't tried the oval rings yet. The article I was referring to was a link from another site, but noiw I can't find it. I was sure I bookmarked it, but I guess I didn't.
Ricky Horwitz had free plans for the TBolt that may still be online. I got my template for the derailler hanger from there, which I simply modified from the dropout template he had. I do like using deraillers that bolt on that way. I agree with you 100% on the short cranks and higher cadence. Not just for the knees, but the higher cadence enables me to ride longer. I do push on occasion just to help build the leg muscles as suggested by my doctor.

[GregLWB]

Thanks John and Kid.

I have been to 25hz's site. A wealth of information there.:1eye:

Thanks for the info on the dropout tab. That will help.:)

Greg

[GregLWB]

G'day Greg,

I've done 3 this way now. It's pretty simple. If you look at most Derailler hangars you will see that the centre to centre distance is about 1 1/4" between the Derailer bolt and the Axle. The Der bolt is 10mm metric fine.
Here's what it looks like. Maybe you can copy and scale.

Hope this helps,

John Lewis

John - I'm using the drawing of the rear der. dropout that you posted so that I can start painting my TM today. Thanks.:)

Greg

[John Lewis]

Must admit to slacking on the job. Not much done the last week or so as I wait on some bits or more precicely save enough change for what I want. Brake and gear cables, new chain and a rear wheel.

In the meantime I've been brazing up a TE clone Recycled recumbent Mark 2 for a friend. Cut up his old Giant Cronos. Shame really it was a lovely old bike. Tripple butted 4130 CroMo and very light. Still he is aging and finding it hard on the upright. Both he and the bike will now have a new lease of life.:jester:

I'll put up a picture of what I've done later. Should have documented the build I guess.

Hope to get mine complete by the end of the next couple of weeks if all goes to plan.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Well I finally have managed to get back to finishing my Marauder. Mainly need to clean it back and get the paint on now. I have built a nice front wheel using a 406 X 16 Alexrim and a Joytec hub from a Giant bike. It is quite narrow as 20 inch wheels go. I put a Primo Comet 20 X 1.35 100psi tyre on it. I won't run it at 100 though because it is lightly loaded. It was the skinniest tyre I could find. I still have to find a suitable rear wheel. At the moment I'm borrowing the one from my LWB. It is pretty wide and only 60psi.

I'm hoping to get it all prepped and painted by the weekend weather permitting. One thing I noticed during rolling tests was that the seat acts as a sounding board and the bike is quite noisy. I will sandwich some rubber under the seat mounts and also the seat will have a pad. I hope that quietens things down.

More pictures shortly. I will try to do a sequence of making the Ventisit style seat pad as it may be of interest.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Progress has been a bit slow but the end is in sight. Today I finished fitting the cable stops and cleaned up. Now I need to just do a little filling and its on to the paint.
In the past I've always used acrylic laqueur because it drys fast. I found some Rustoleum spray cans today. It looks like the real thing. Some have said the Rustoleum here is not the same as in US. This looks to be imported. It cost the same as my acrylic so I'm going to give it a try. Only red was available so red it shall be. Anyway red bikes go faster.:jester:

Here are a few pics.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Clamp.jpg

This is the simple clamp arrangement I use to hold the cable stops

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/ready-2.jpg

Cleaned up, Fluxed and ready to solder. Half inch of silver solder laid alongside.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/heat.jpg

Now for some gentle heat.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/done.jpg

Here it is all done.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/cleanup.jpg

And cleaned up.

I have about 12 of these all up. This method has always worked well for me. A propane torch is hot enough so long as you use the high silver content rod.

John Lewis

[SirJoey]

Nice work, John! I hate taking the time to braze on cable stops,
but it sure makes a big difference in the end result!

Holding the darn things in place for brazing can be a pain at times,
but I like your simple clamp method!

Here's a little jig I made which works fairly well, depending on location:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1348/dsc038422.jpg

Next time I'm in a spot where I can't use this thing, I'll try it your way! :)


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[savarin]

Hi John, if your rustoleum cans have that funny handle thingie be wary of leaks. At least thats been my experience.
The white is a poor coverer but does dry very hard.

[John Lewis]

Hi John, if your rustoleum cans have that funny handle thingie be wary of leaks. At least thats been my experience.
The white is a poor coverer but does dry very hard.

Yep, they are the ones with the funny handle. In what way do they leak? Lose gas? or don't seal off when you stop spraying.

I had trouble with some other cans losing gas. I emptied them into a spray gun and used the paint that way.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Sir J,
Thanks for the kind comments.
That's a neat way you have to do the clamping. It would hold them firm if you were going to TIG or MIG them. My way is only good with the brazing where the metal just melts and flows in. Nothing moves even though they aren't tightly held. Another way is to lay a nail or wire along the slot in the fitting and tie it down at each end with a wire twitch. That is sometimes needed to get into odd places.

John Lewis

[savarin]

Yep, they are the ones with the funny handle. In what way do they leak? Lose gas? or don't seal off when you stop spraying.

I had trouble with some other cans losing gas. I emptied them into a spray gun and used the paint that way.

John Lewis

both my cans leaked paint somewhere inside that weird trigger.
Its also harder to keep spraying with that what I find awkward trigger, it needs more pressure than you expect to keep spraying.
Just my experience so far.

[John Lewis]

Just a bit more done today. I got everything cleaned back and tidied up ready to paint. I primed a piece with my usual epoxy primer to see how it goes with the Rustoleum. They say it doesn't need priming but I like the idea of the zinc rich coat. I also treated the metal with phosphoric acid to help with corrosion control. Tomorrow I'll test with the paint and if all is well I'll do the lot.

I have made up the front wheel. I'm becoming pretty good at this now. I scored a nice double wall Alex rim that is 406 x 16 so its about as thin as a road rim. I got hold of a new hub from a Giant bike that had problems with breaking spokes. A set of spokes , 20 minutes work and a nice Primo Comet tyre and here's the result. Now all I have to do is find a matching 26" back wheel.

John Lewis

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Wheel.jpg

[John Lewis]

The weather was not ideal today but I managed to paint this as a test. Not too bad. I may need to rub it back and recoat as its not quite what I want. The drying time is annoying. That is why I usually use lacquers.
Now the question is can you clearcoat the Rustoleum? I suspect my automotive clearcoat would not do. It will probably wrinkle the paint and not stay on. Any thoughts? Rustoleum might do one but its certainly not stocked here.
Here's a shot of the rear triangle hanging up to dry and trying to act as flypaper.

John Lewis

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/painted.jpg

[SirJoey]

...can you clearcoat the Rustoleum?[/IMG]John, the only thing I've ever found that I can't clear-coat,
is "chrome" paint, & Krylon "X-metals" paint.


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[trikeman]

I followed the thread on MoParts on painting your car with a roller and greatly thinned (with mineral spirits) Rustoleum for about a year. It was far and away the longest thread ever seen. The method was later featured in Hot Rod magazine. I ended up painting the hood of my old van that had been damaged by a tree limb way just to see how hard it was. About 6 thin coats wet sanded with 600 grit every other coat until about coat 4. I recall a few guys that painted cars that way did use Rustoleum clear coat, but most just buffed out the final coats (after waiting a month or two for it to fully set). The problem with clear coat is that it makes it harder to repair later.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

By the way, there is a paint called "Brightside" that is a marine paint that is even shinier than Rustoleum. Many started using that for the additional shine, but still using rollers. BOth Rustoleum and Brightside are self-leveling and designed to be applied with brushes and rollers.

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa//product_guide/finishes_undercoats/US_brightside.asp?ComponentID=6663&SourcePageID=6660#1

[SirJoey]

I followed the thread on MoParts on painting your car with a roller and greatly thinned (with mineral spirits) Rustoleum for about a year.I found a similar one about a year or so ago, where this guy used the very same technique.
He called it his 50 dollar paint job. IMO, it came out spectacular!

I saved the link, cuz I always thought I might try it myself someday:
http://www.rickwrench.com/index79master.htm?http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[trikeman]

Yep SJ. That Moparts forum was where the $50 paint job originated. Then, it went viral on the net. I didn't think Hot Rod's article did the method justice, since they chose to paint a white Ford Falcon, and really didn't do as good a job as some of the guys on the forum. Another Canuck (69ChargerYeeHaa) was really the guy that made it really go with his Duke Boys charger and various VWs.


There is a lot of wet sanding (although it goes pretty easily), but there is not over-spray or other messiness inherent in a spray paint job. I used to dream of one day spray painting a car, but after trying the $50 way, spraying doesn't interest me anymore.

[trikeman]

Here's the Charger that started it all

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC02769.jpg

Here's the Hot Rod article.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/hrdp_0707_1962_ford_falcon_budget_paint_job/index.html

[SirJoey]

Thanx for the info, TM. Didn't know all that. I guess I just
stumbled onto it when it went viral with the Corvair paint job.

So, you've actually done this, then?

You know, if you had a car that looked like that, & told people you'd painted it
yourself with a roller, they'd swear you were a raving lunatic, or a bare-faced liar! :rolleyes:

:offtopic:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[dynodon]

You guys are yankin us right????? A roller, I've heard it all. I've painted plow trucks with a roller and Rustoleum but never wet sanded over and over but they looked good from a distance. I'd like to give it a try someday.

[trikeman]

You guys are yankin us right????? A roller, I've heard it all. I've painted plow trucks with a roller and Rustoleum but never wet sanded over and over but they looked good from a distance. I'd like to give it a try someday.

Not yankin you at all. Probably 30 guys (maybe more after I quit reading and contributing to it) painted cars on that MoParts forum. And Hot Rod Magazine wouldn't yank ya would it? The secret is to thin the pain really thin. As I recall I used about 30/70 maybe more or less mineral spirits to paint. It kind of looks like low fat milk, consistency wise. The first coat is so thin you can see through it like a sheet of velum. Putting it on so thin helps it level out (no brush strokes) and it dries to the touch in about 15 minutes. A lot of bubbles appear at first, but they all seem to pop within the first few minutes, and you go over it with a foam brush (once) to help. The wet sanding makes it smooth. If you do that enough times, its smooth as glass at the end. It really works, but its not for the lazy. I think its the perfect method to paint a car (and maybe a bike) for a Zombie (cheap, different, no fancy tools required etc.) The final coat is buffed with an electric buffer (Harbor Freight or a good $150 one) using either Turtle Wax compound or some of the guys used fancy progressive grits to make it look like a mirror.

Ooops. I guess we have hijacked this thread enough. - sorry

[dynodon]

The article is great.....dont think I'll paint my 72 Elcamino SS like that but maybe a kids car someday.

[John Lewis]

Yes. I've read those articles and it sounds like it would give a great finish with a bit of effort.
The problem was for me that I only had the spray can Rustoleum. They didn't have it in ordinary cans.
It is available but the stuff they sell as Rustoleum here is a different formulation and those who have tried report that it won't work as per the articles and is inferior. The spray cans seem to be the genuine article though. It goes on well enough but it just has that look about it. Perhaps if I wait until it is hard and wet sand with 1200 grit and the polish it may come up better. Don't get me wrong> It's quite acceptable now straight off the gun so to speak.

John Lewis

[trikeman]

John - the main reason (other than not being as messy and not requiring a lot of equipment) most people paint their cars with the roller method is cost. On a bike, the difference between a few cans of spray paint and a quart of Rustoleum is pretty small, so the advantage is not as great anyway.

[John Lewis]

What a mess. Seems Sir J isn't the only one with paint troubles. Wish I'd stuck to my automotive acrylic. Thought I'd try Rustoleum. Gah. It takes for ever to dry so every bug in creation gets stuck and what should take half a day takes many. Then I rubbed out the bad, buggy areas with some 1200 wet and resprayed those spots. It came up in big wrinkles much worse than appear in the photo. I'm tempted to brush it all back to bare metal and start again. I would but there's round $50 worth of paint there. Well at least the back looks reasonable.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/wrinkle.jpg
The wrinkles
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/wrinkle2.jpg
Out of focus but shows extent of damage in this area
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/paint.jpg
Rear end. Leaves etc from storm apparent on ground.

The other fool thing I did was in my rush to beat the weather I forgot to use my spray putty and rub back so the finish has some blemishes in the metal,grinder marks and so forth, that would have been covered.

I think I'll finish assembling the bike. Leave the paint to dry a month or three. Probably take that long. Then I.ll try to repair the wrinkles.

Rustoleum. Never again. Its junk as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe it is the same as that sold in the US.

John Lewis

[savarin]

I'm in total agreement John.
I will never buy rustoleum again.
And those really crappy trigger systems, Bah!
Once bitten etc.
Good luck on the repairs.

[SirJoey]

Rustoleum.... I don't believe it is the same as that sold in the US.Doesn't sound like it. I've always had good luck with it, & like it real well.

BTW, does it say on the label (like it does here) to "Recoat within an hour, or after 24"?
Not doing that alone will cause what you're showing.


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[trikeman]

One of the things we learned using Rustoleum to paint cars is that it can take a long time to dry. I think that is partly because they try to make it more self-leveling than some paints. That means they don't put a lot of fast drying hardeners in it. When painting cars we always thinned it a lot with mineral spirits. That means that the mineral spirits evaporates very fast, and dries that coat. Even with that, we waited 24 hours to recoat. Some people waited months for the final buffing. Painting that way is more work than just spraying something out of a can. I would probably not recommend using Rustoleum straight as it comes from the can.

[John Lewis]

Trikeman, yes, I've read up on the car painting. This Rustoleum was in a spray can so it wasn't possible to thin further. Oh well, live and learn. If we don't try different ideas we'd never progress.

Sir Joey, Yes it has that warning. This paint had been on the best part of a week. I suspect that after I'd rubbed it back it probably needed leaving to cure some more. I had a total of 2 coats initially at approx 1 hour intervals and then a final after 24 hours. The weather was not very helpful though, cold and wet and this may have had some effect.

Savarin, Strangely the trigger worked well for me and I didn't have any leaks. I quite liked it.

John Lewis

[SirJoey]

Sir Joey, Yes it has that warning. This paint had been on the best part of a week. I suspect that after I'd rubbed it back it probably needed leaving to cure some more. I had a total of 2 coats initially at approx 1 hour intervals and then a final after 24 hours. The weather was not very helpful though, cold and wet and this may have had some effect.Well then, that's your answer, IMO. Prolly the combination of a couple of coats,
& unfavorable weather conditions, creating a need for extended curing time. JMO, FWIW.
Better luck next time, eh? :)


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[John Lewis]

At long Last.
I finally completed my Marauder today. Sure took me long enough. Had time for a couple of laps round the block before dark. Pictures tomorrow weather permitting.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Well the weather didn't play nice so I spent the day making a Ventisit style seat pad. The following is an account of how it was done.
The Idea is not mine. It came from this thread on BROL.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=30225
and specifically this post.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showpost.php?p=464502&postcount=44.

The material I used is called ACS 10 from EMP industries. I got some locally. If you want to know more about the material look here.

http://www.empind.com.au/cat/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=11399

This is what the material looks like.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/ACS10.jpg

I cut a piece that was a bit more than twice as wide as the seat and about 5" longer. The seat was 31" long and 10" wide. I cut to 36" long and 22" wide. I rounded the ends with the help of the template. I cut overlength and did one end in a temporary finish so I could measure how much extra was needed in length before the finish cut.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Cut-to-size.jpg

I decided to do three layers so I cut a piece the same size as the seat to go in the middle.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/inner.jpg

One on top of the other.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/fitted-1.jpg

This is how it looks folded. Paper for clarity.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/folded.jpg

The next bit was tricky. I had to "stitch" the three layers together with cable ties. I did not go right through to the front but only into the back of the front layer. Here are the completed ties. I used a couple of temporary ones to hold it all in place and square. A trick I found was to twist the ties edge in to line up with the fine threads. ou'll understand what I mean when you have some in hand. Tis enables the ties to go through easier.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/all-tied.jpg

Continued next post

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

To continue.

It is now necessary to fit a draw string around each end. The rope shows where it will go. I used fish line but really long cable ties would be good.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/tie-line.jpg

I made up a needle from a bit of copper wire to do the job.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/needle.jpg

Here's where the thread goes.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/threading.jpg

Now it is drawn up tight to shape the ends and tied off. I also used one cable tie at the centre of each end to help hold it flat. Remember not to go right through the front.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/shaped-1.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/end-shape.jpg

And here is the finished seat pad ready for the bike.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/complete-a.jpg


I am going to use velcro for the job. An alternative is to drill some 3/16" holes at strategic locations around your seat. Now pass a cable tie up through the hole, around through the back layer of the pad, back down the hole and complete the tie.

OK folks. I hope this was interesting and some of you will give it a try.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

The last picture. Had too many in the last post

John Lewis


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/complete-b.jpg

[Odd Man Out]

Good stuff John, I have 4 questions for you;

Is the materiel wrapped around a foam pad or is it by itself?
Does it stretch and give a lot when you pull it??
Do you feel the zip tie stitching?
How well does velcro stick to it?

Kat ought to cut your 2 posts out, put them together as one and post them in the appropriate area -- again, GOOD stuff!

[SirJoey]

Dang, John. You are absolutely the :party: of seat building! :punk:

You should start a recumbent seat business! :jester:

Seriously though, REALLY nice work! :)


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[trikeman]

Amen to that king of seats comment. Outstanding work again.

[John Lewis]

Good stuff John, I have 4 questions for you;

Is the materiel wrapped around a foam pad or is it by itself?
Does it stretch and give a lot when you pull it??
Do you feel the zip tie stitching?
How well does velcro stick to it?

Kat ought to cut your 2 posts out, put them together as one and post them in the appropriate area -- again, GOOD stuff!

Hi OMO. That was quick. The material is not wrapped around a foam pad. It is 3 layers thick of the same material. If you look at the pictures you'll see a centre piece the size of the seat and the outer wrapped round it to make the three layers. Several people I know just used two layers. They didn't use the centre piece. They say it is fine. I just needed it to be a bit deeper. The material breathes well and could be too cold at times I'm told. On the EMP site they suggest using some camping mat foam for the inner layer if you wish.

It doesn't stretch a lot when its made up. Mine has the diamonds lengthwise and it tends to decreas in width a bit but it will be held by the velcro and ironed out by me sitting on it.:jester:

You don't know the zip ties are there. Use thin ones or alternatively stitch it. Remember the ties don't go right through the front. They only have to catch it.

I don't think the velcro will stick too well. I intend to stick the pile to the seat and the hooks to the pad. I will also add some stitching. I'm told that coarse velcro hooks can hold the pad by itself without the pile. I'm yet to get that far and find out. Tomorrow it will be done.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Hey. Sir Joey and trikeman. Are you guys trying to give me a swelled head? :jester:
Really it was the BROL post that put me right.
Thanks for the kind comments.

[SirJoey]

Hey. Sir Joey and trikeman. Are you guys trying to give me a swelled head? :jester:With work like THAT, you deserve it! :)


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[John Lewis]

OK. Here are a couple more hints from those who have made these seats over on the Oz forum. I'd have added them to the earlier thread but can't . If Kat moves the post she should include this.

From William.
Just another thing to be aware of when making the acs10 seat cover if trying to make it the original way.
Make a cardboard or thin ply cutout of your seat shape and fold the acs10 material over it without trying to stretch it. This way it will end up the right width. Many have measured, cut, folded, stitched and found out its just a tad on the narrow side.
For the professional finish to have flat edges and ends put a tea towel over it and steam iron the edges slowly. It then stays in shape better instead of a rolled edge.

And from Poiter.

Re Stretch

New players should note that the large width of the diamond shape in the weave should go up an down the seat.
The narrow width then will stretch out a little sideways across the seat.

Poiter AKA Peter should know what he's talking about. He's just ridden across Australia on his VK2 equip with one of these pads to set a new record for the crossing. Pete's tough. The day before, he rode a 200km Audax then dipped his back wheel in the Indian Ocean at Fremantle and rode around 4014km across Australia to dip his front wheel in the Pacific at Sydney's Bondi beach. Total time 11 days 17 hours and 20 minutes. Then the next morning he rode the 300km home to Canberra. He must be getting close to 60 yo too. Admits to 50 something.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

So finally. At long last. After months of silent toil in the dank dungeon workshop (or something like that) my Marauder is ready to show the world. (Drum roll. Fanfare). Well you get the idea.
Anyway without further ado here are some shots of my finished Marauder II.
The completed bike.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Finish-1.jpg

From the left.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/Right-qr.jpg

And the right.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/chain-side.jpg

The home cobbled suspension.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/suspension-final.jpg

Chain management.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/chain-management.jpg

There it is. remaining pics in next post. Video when I find out how to use U Tube.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

The remaining pics.

The seat.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/seat-on-bike.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/seat-on-bike2.jpg

View from the Bridge

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/bridge.jpg

The bars are a bit higher than I'd like but need to be there to clear the knees. I'm going to look at this further to see if there is a solution.

The weather has been unhelpful but in the couple of short rides it seems fast. The suspension bounce when you hit a bump takes a bit of getting used to. I have tightened it up more but not had a chance to try. So far I like it but I won't really know what it really rides until I put some miles on it.

The seat is comfortable but a tad narrow perhaps. The seat pad is quite firm too after the filter foam pad on the Wolf.

I weighed it on my excuse for scales at 22kg. The Wolf came in at 25kg if I recall so I think the scales are telling stories. I'll have to do another weigh in later.

So now its on to the next project. My wife wants to know who I'm building them for. She doesn't understand this affliction at all. :jester:

John Lewis

[savarin]

The bars are a bit higher than I'd like but need to be there to clear the knees. I'm going to look at this further to see if there is a solution.


Heres a way John. Works for me.
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?p=31212#post31212

Love the seat cushion (you already know I love the bike)

[SirJoey]

WHOA! And not only that, but WHOA!! :taz:

Now THAT'S some CRAFTSMANSHIP, John! WTG man, she's a beaut!
As you know, I'm a cabling neat-freak, & that's some nice cabling there!

Love the way you closed up the opening just ahead of the pivot.
And that SEAT... man, your seat work is out of this world! Truly pro! :punk:

Looks like you resolved your paint issues, too. Just outstanding! :)


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[John Lewis]

Heres a way John. Works for me.
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?p=31212#post31212

Love the seat cushion (you already know I love the bike)

Thanks Charles. That cushion looks just like the real McCoy in the photo. It wasn't that hard to do either.
I looked at your bars and had contemplated something similar. Trouble is, I like my arms stretched out a bit. I like it when my arms are extended so that the part of the bar I grip is just above my wrist. I set up all my bikes this way. It sort of introduces a natural spring that helps the steering. Also when my arms are bent they tend to cramp up after a while. The view is low too because I lay the seat back further than the plans I think.

BTW. I got the book from Plough Books thank you.

John Lewis

[savarin]

BTW. I got the book from Plough Books thank you.

John Lewis

Great, I feel really embarrassed about that.
I still cannot find it, got no idea where it went.

[John Lewis]

WHOA! And not only that, but WHOA!! :taz:

Now THAT'S some CRAFTSMANSHIP, John! WTG man, she's a beaut!
As you know, I'm a cabling neat-freak, & that's some nice cabling there!

Love the way you closed up the opening just ahead of the pivot.
And that SEAT... man, your seat work is out of this world! Truly pro! :punk:

Looks like you resolved your paint issues, too. Just outstanding! :)


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Thank you Sir Joey. High praise indeed from an old master.
Yes I like to keep the cabling neat and with as little cable outer casing as possible. It works better that way I think.

If you recall, I concocted the suspension from a non suspension back end. The original BB has a set of sealed bearings fitted. The tube ahead of it is just common muffler tube and the side plates that cover the ends are the pivot supports. I hope that piece of tube is strong enough for the job and doesn't kink or twist.

As for the seat. I'm amazed too. It came out way better than I thought it would,both the moulded wood seat and the cushion pad.

John Lewis

[Radical Brad]

Great work! That's one clean machine indeed.
Kat will have to grab a few pics for the gallery.

Brad

[dynodon]

Way Nice!! She looks wicked fast.....how long is it?

[SirJoey]

If you recall, I concocted the suspension from a non suspension back end. The original BB has a set of sealed bearings fitted.Yes, I remember the pics you posted, making your own pivot rear end!
I remember thinking it was brilliant, too! With the actual BEARINGS you used,
it would have to be vastly superior to any factory job with bushings, IMO.

Just some superb craftsmanship, all the way around, inside & out! :punk:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[locolarry]

John,
What a tremendous job! Marvelous! We'll have to start calling you "Professor John" !:punk:
Loco

[John Lewis]

More info forthe seat pad. Poiter had this to say about attaching the velcro to the ACS10 pad.

" Hot Melt glue the velcro on using the high temp stuff.
Spread it all over the Velcro and just hold in place till cool/solid.
If needed you can remove it when you put it in the wrong position using a heat gun.
Wear gloves because HMG is like napalm on your fingers - why do I know that?
Easy on the heat with the heat gun too because you can melt the ACS10."

I think we have just about all we need to know now to make great pads.

And thanks Larry for your kind words.

John Lewis

[GregLWB]

Really nice John!:sunny:

Greg

[John Lewis]

Really nice John!:sunny:

Greg

Thanks Greg,
I hope it will be as fast as it looks. Weather has finally improved so I think I'll get to give it a good test run today.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

Well I have still only ridden the Marauder a little. It really does feel fast but I have no computer so it may just be perception. On the other hand I was spinning out in my top gear downwind and up hill. The gearing was 11 -42, about 90 GI so should have been at about 45 kmh I think. I can feel a little pogoing from the suspension. Don't know if that robs me of power. I also notice a lot of chain movement. That shows on Brad's video too. I may need to supply a little extra management. Perhaps a short chain tube.

I want a tail box to hold a few things. The suspension makes that a challenge. I want it to make the bike more aero too. I'm told tailboxes don't work as well on LWB's and a fairing is better value. I think that applies to more upright versions like TE's though. I read that a wheel disk on a lowracer acts as a splitter and does much the same as a tailbox. I don't have a dork disk spoke protector so I decided to kill two birds with one stone and made a coreflute wheel disk. I really can't tell if it has made a difference. I will experiment when the weather improves.
Anyway here is a picture or two.
John Lewis

Left hand side

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/dscf0652.jpg

Right hand side

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/dscf0651.jpg

[savarin]

That is going to be one hell of a speed machine by the time you finish John.
So first impressions are very favorable eh.

[savarin]

That is going to be one hell of a speed machine by the time you finish John.
So first impressions are very favorable eh.

[trikeman]

What about putting one of those wheel discs on the front wheel too? I have read that to make a front fairing effective you need to be as close to it as possible, unless you also use a sock. It might be difficult to get close as long as the Marauder is. These two from the gallery might give you some ideas:

http://www.atomiczombie.com/gallery/scotfeland/eltempestad.jpg

http://www.atomiczombie.com/gallery/scottberelson/inchworm.jpg

[jimFPU]

Man, this thing is looking swell!

[dynodon]

I wouldnt use disk on the front, from my younger days of riding time trials a front disk and a cross wind can be very dangerous.

[JayinTexas]

Excellent John. Love the details that you have put into it such as making the top seat bracket come to a point. I'm also glad to see someone successfully use those cables that have the outer casing made in sections.

Jay

[John Lewis]

That is going to be one hell of a speed machine by the time you finish John.
So first impressions are very favorable eh.

Pretty good. It has a bit much wheel flop even though I lowered it from the plans. It tries to pull to the side whenever you get a bit off centre at lower speeds. Seems OK at higher speed. I can ride no hands at high speed if I don't pedal. Goes to grubs then.:jester:

On my long ride into town this morning to the bike shop my neck was complaining. The seat pressing against the shoulder blade area transmits all the noise by bone conduction. I lean forward and the noise goes as soon as shoulder blades are clear of the seat. I'll try a bit of camping mat foam in that area and perhaps a neck support. Saw one made from a plastic cooking spatula that looks as if it will work.

Found I wasn't concerned at riding in traffic probably because I do it all the time on the low tadpole.
This is a bit lower. I've bottomed out twice now. Need a stiffer suspension spring.

John

[John Lewis]

What about putting one of those wheel discs on the front wheel too? I have read that to make a front fairing effective you need to be as close to it as possible, unless you also use a sock. It might be difficult to get close as long as the Marauder is. These two from the gallery might give you some ideas:

Yes I've seen those. I have an idea or two but need to get a decent size piece of coreflute to try. If it works I'll redo in Lexan.

My understanding is wheel disks are dangerous up front. Might not be so bad with 20" wheel. I thought perhaps a wheel spat like a plane that covers 1/2 the wheel. Need something to keep the wet off.

John

[John Lewis]

I wouldnt use disk on the front, from my younger days of riding time trials a front disk and a cross wind can be very dangerous.

Yes that's my understanding too dynodon. The TT bike would have been dual 700c wheels so a much bigger frontal area. 20" on a low bike may not be a problem. I'll test it anyway.

The rear disk was not affected by wind. I tried it in a very strong gusting crosswind.

John

[John Lewis]

Man, this thing is looking swell!
Thanks Jim.

John

[John Lewis]

Excellent John. Love the details that you have put into it such as making the top seat bracket come to a point. I'm also glad to see someone successfully use those cables that have the outer casing made in sections.

Jay

Thanks Jay.

The cables are bought seperately, cable and outer. I cut them to length to suit and put the thimbles on the ends. The trick is working out where to put the cable stops. I like to have as little outer cable as possible fo less friction.

John

[SirJoey]

I like to have as little outer cable as possible fo less friction.Same here.
It's just a nice, professional-looking touch, too! :)

Besides, cable stops eliminate the need for zip-ties.
I HATE zip-ties on the frame! :furious:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[John Lewis]

I've been out giving this bike a good testing and will do a report in due course.

I'm finding a few minor things I need to do. One of these was to adjust the pedal position out a bit. Easily done. Another is to alter the handlebar's. I'm not quite satisfied but can't yet decide what I want to do. I want to lower them but then they need to be closer to miss my knees and they are too close anyway for my liking. Decisions decisions.

One decision I had to make was what to do about the long length of chain flopping about and the noise from the chain guide (ex deraileur) No matter what I did it would rub or move because I had it mounted with the guide pulley bolt.
This all came to a head when one of the little idlers disintegrated while out on a ride. I don't think burning off roadies had anything to do with it but maybe it was the punishment for that.:jester:

Anyway I decided to go with simplicity and use a chain tube. I've had good luck with them.
The photos shows the result. It is quiet, doesn't seem to rob any detectable power and has stopped the chain shaking all over the place. I think it is a considerable improvement on what I had before and looks a lot neater.
John Lewis

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/tube1.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Marauder-Build/tube2.jpg

[Locutus]

Great idea, John. Looks great and I'll bet less drag than a hacked derailleur too.

[Odd Man Out]

I decided to go with simplicity and use a chain tube. I've had good luck with them.
The photos shows the result. It is quiet, doesn't seem to rob any detectable power and has stopped the chain shaking all over the place. I think it is a considerable improvement on what I had before and looks a lot neater.
John Lewis

John
Looks very professional. Really like how you positioned the reinforcing part out of the way and used it to attach to the idler. Hope you don't mind if I steal and use your idea on my two Warrior trikes I'm building.

[SirJoey]

That is SLICK, John!

...oh, and I'm still in AWE of your seat, BTW! :D


http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/49/signaturehalloween.jpg