Stress points?

[anewguy]

Well, after looking at the Meridian plans I finally purchased, my doctor said he would prefer I have a trike because of my balance problems. So, I purchased the Delta Runner plans now too. Not being any kind of mechanic, engineer, etc., I have what might be a dumb question, but I'm going to ask anyway.

The Delta Runner appears to me to have a weak point - maybe more than 1. In looking at the construction of the rear "cage" that supports the rear axles, etc., it appears to my novice eyes that someone of my weight (350) could break off any of the shorter support tubes or even the main tube since the downward force of my weight doesn't really have any extra resistance there. I was wondering if one can completely box the rear axle support stuff and weld then main tube on top of that. It would seem to me a box would be stronger, and with the tube on top of that box it shouldn't want to snap off.

Am I just being an idiot or could I use a little help for a potential mod to support my fat butt? :)

Thanks in advance!

dave:stooge_curly:

[rickairmed]

Dave I would say you should be safe with the plans as is . I just looked at the loadrunner which is intended to carry 500+ pounds and the mainbeam hooks to it in a similar way. I might recomend a slightly beefier tubing than 16 guage but otherwise you should be ok.

Rick

[TheKid]

No dumb question there. Mine broke at the rear. Luckily, I added some aluminum flat bar to prevent the disk from hitting the box I added. The method I used prevented the rear from snapping off completely. I added reinforcement to the rear connection to prevent it from happening, but it wasn't enough. I added a strut on each side from the short ends to the seat stay. Boxing it in will work just as well. I weigh 250, (gained the 12 lbs. back) so at 350, I'd say it's better to be safe than sorry.
Before this happened, I was always a little leery about the rear connection, even with the reinforcement, and checked the welds after every use for 2 months, and they were fine. I figured after 2 months with no problem, I wouldn't have to worry about it. I was wrong.

http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=1985

[Radical Brad]

If your welds are done correctly and you use 3/32 tubing, your frame will FAR exceed the strength of any bicycle rims you might find.

As for rims, you might want to look at the 48 hole or even 20 inch wheels as well.

Thanks,
Brad

[anewguy]

If your welds are done correctly and you use 3/32 tubing, your frame will FAR exceed the strength of any bicycle rims you might find.

As for rims, you might want to look at the 48 hole or even 20 inch wheels as well.

Thanks,
Brad

Thanks, Brad! I was also think of either using 2x2 stock instead of 1.5x1.5, or perhaps adding to the bottom of the main tube so it would be sort of like an open "I" beam. But I make no claim to any understanding of the engineering, etc., knowledge it takes to know this stuff. If I did go with 2x2x3/32 tubing, would that be overkill? Also, I keep looking online but the only places I seem to find 40 spoke, let alone 48 spoke double wall rims are at speciality bike shops on the web and they cost what is to me at least a LOT of money - over $100 each. Is there any cheaper sources for 48 hole double wall rims? We don't have much here for junk bikes in our little town. I'm waiting for a police auction I think they will have for the county later this spring.

Thanks everyone for the help! As you can tell, I want to build one of these quite badly but I also lack any kind of knowledge about the tubing, welding, etc.. The regular bike stuff I should be able to handle - I was one of those kids that was always tearing his bikes down to component parts, checking all the bearings and races, etc.. Hopefully that will help some.

I guarantee I'll be back with more dumb questions! I just want to make sure from the start that I make something that will hold up to my weight.

Thanks again!
Dave :)

[Radical Brad]

No problem!

Yes, the 48 hole "pedicab" rims are big bucks, that's for sure. Unless you plan on going electric with a big battery pack then stick with the 1.5 inch tubing. If you doubt your welded joints, then 2 inch will not make them any better. You could always go to the 48 hole 20 inch BMX wheels if you want bullet proof wheels, but a good set of 36 hole 26 wheels will hold out as long as you are nice around corners.

Brad

[TheKid]

I'm using department store wheels. I modified the hubs to the wider 3 1/2" width as per the plans in the DW, and used the same spokes and rims. No problems with the wheels at all. They're single walled aluminum rims. My problem with the rear occurred after carrying a heavy load that shifted rearward. I was surprised, because I added a piece of flat steel on the bottom of the boom to span the joint. I should have added one to the top as well, but I ened up with the struts just to be on the safe side. They're out of the way of the chain and add support to the back of the seat.

[anewguy]

I've been trying to watch for a yard sale in town to see if they might have an old bike or 2 for sale cheap. In the process of thinking about that and looking at the Delta Runner plans, I have another dumb question:

for the rear wheels, do the source wheels (to get rim and spokes from) have to also have been rear wheels, or will front wheels do since the hub is being replaced?

Thanks in advance!
Dave :)

[John Lewis]

Dave,

The rear wheels usually have different spoke lengths each side because the wheel is dished to take account of the rear sprockets.

Front wheels have the spokes all the same length so they are the preferred ones to use.

John Lewis

[anewguy]

Well, I have another dumb question. After being through the DeltaRunner plans several times, I can't figure out what stops the rear axles from moving outward or inward. Are there some sort of stops I am missing? Do the bearings get set-screwed to the axles, and due to their shape hold the axle from moving side to side?

Thanks in advance again for helping out a dumb guy!

Dave :)

[TheKid]

The bearings have set screws that dig into the axle, which leaves a ridge when you loosen them, which sometimes makes the axles difficult to remove. RR suggests marking where the set screws dig in, and grinding a small flat area so the ridge clears the bearing.
In addition to the set screws, the disc brake adapter on the right axle fits tight against the bearing. If you install the bearing so the edge is flush with the arm is mounted to, you could use a shaft collar as a spacer, which also has a set screw that doesn't leave a ridge in the axle when loosened. The collar and the adapter will stop the axle from moving. On the left axle, it's the discbrake/freewheel adapter that holds the axle in place.
The bearings in the housings are usually offset to one side, so you can install the outside bearings with the longer protrusion to the outside, and the inner bearings so the longer protrusion is facing the adapters. This will prevent the need for shaft collars. However, shaft collars are useful for other things, like holding flanges perpendicular to the axles, or making adapters. They're available from thebigbearingstore.com and mcmaster.com.

[greenevegiebeast]

Well, after looking at the Meridian plans I finally purchased, my doctor said he would prefer I have a trike because of my balance problems. So, I purchased the Delta Runner plans now too. Not being any kind of mechanic, engineer, etc., I have what might be a dumb question, but I'm going to ask anyway.

The Delta Runner appears to me to have a weak point - maybe more than 1. In looking at the construction of the rear "cage" that supports the rear axles, etc., it appears to my novice eyes that someone of my weight (350) could break off any of the shorter support tubes or even the main tube since the downward force of my weight doesn't really have any extra resistance there. I was wondering if one can completely box the rear axle support stuff and weld then main tube on top of that. It would seem to me a box would be stronger, and with the tube on top of that box it shouldn't want to snap off.

Am I just being an idiot or could I use a little help for a potential mod to support my fat butt? :)

Thanks in advance!

dave:stooge_curly:

im building a delta runner modded, for my sister, it started as a project for me, im in the 400 lb range. I load ested the frame after I welded the rear section on. No noticable flex or giv. The load runner aught to be safe for you as planned.

[anewguy]

Well, here's another silly question while I wait to find parts and for it to warm up outside so I can get started:

Would the underseat steering mode, as shown for the DeltaWolf, also work on the DeltaRunner? If so, being a huge guy, I would imagine they would be cramped and I'd be better off with the regular steering?

Thanks again!

dave :)

[TheKid]

You could probably do it comfortably by moving the head tube back, just in front of the front seat post. The bars could be made wide and enough so the bars and your hands clear the wheels. You'd also probably need some reinforcement under the boom. On this type of trike, it's probably not practical. It's easy enough to place the steering so you could get on and off easy, and use the bars for support.
It's also easy enough to incorporate tilt steering if you need more clearance.
I built mine before the plans were out, but I just clamped the pilot steering in place before welding it to the boom. After a few tries, I found the perfect location for getting on and off without the bars being in the way, and for support that I need due to disabilities.

[anewguy]

And another dumb question - I've looked through both of the plans I purchased - the Meridian and the Deltarunner trike, but I know some things are just dependant on the length of ones legs, etc.. However, will 20 feet of tubing be enough for both bikes? The only way I can get the tubing in my area is by special order and it comes in 20 foot lengths. Would it be okay to just have them cut it in half so I have 2 - 10 foot pieces, or would I be better off at some other combination given the 2 plans I have?

Thank you again! I want to get the tubing ordered next week so I can start cutting it and start making the hub flanges. If I make it through that, then I should be okay. I was thinking of perhaps using a boat seat (laid back a little) - could I mount it with the swivel so I at least would have a little more room getting in and out with my bad back and bad knees?

Thanks!
Dave :)

[GregLWB]

Would it be okay to just have them cut it in half so I have 2 - 10 foot pieces, or would I be better off at some other combination given the 2 plans I have?

I was thinking of perhaps using a boat seat (laid back a little) - could I mount it with the swivel so I at least would have a little more room getting in and out with my bad back and bad knees?

Thanks!
Dave :)

Dave - I get it in 10 foot lengths so it will fit inside my Suburban. Others have built more bikes than my 2 so they may have differing opinions.

You don't want a swivel on a bike seat unless you have a fool proof way of locking it into position. Otherwise it will dump you on the ground when you go around a corner (even swivel van seats have a position lock).:jester:

Greg

[TheKid]

Here's a swivel that locks in 12 positiuons:

http://shopping.msn.com/specs/springfield-swivel-seat-mount/itemid1179491112/?itemtext=itemname:springfield-swivel-seat-mount

[anewguy]

Thanks guys! I'll be doing some more research on that. On a side note, I found a junk 26" mountain bike for $5 at a garage sale today, so I at least have 1 to start hacking apart. I think I can clean the rims up without much problem, so I'll have 2 of the 3 wheels I need for the Deltarunner. The rear deraileur looks to be in good shape, as well as the brake levers, the fork and the crank. The crank is a 1-piece though, so I'm hoping I can find a 3-piece with shorter arms on it, otherwise I'll have to order one.

So, slowly but surely I'm getting started! As with everyone when this is new to them, I'm bother excited and yet a little nervous when it comes to the welding. There is a small shop in town that does welding, so I might ask them how much to weld it up for me.

Thanks again!
Dave :)

[TheKid]

A lot of us never welded before starting one of these projects. Just do it. Get a welder, look for some scrap steel like discarded metal tables, railings, anything you could find, and practice a little bit. Or you could buy some steel, and use the scraps after you cut the frame pieces. There's plenty of help for welding here in the forums, and elsewhere on the Net. Taking a course also is a big help, especially if you want to make some extra bucks on the side. I'm planning on doing that this fall.

[anewguy]

Well, a tiny bit of progress. They had the police auction of bikes today and I picked up 1 bike for $5 and another for $1. The $1 even has the "spring" front end, so I'll be using that for sure. Checked on the steel prices - runs $37 for 20 feet (minimum order and I have to cut it so I can take it home). Found another place at $16 for 10 feet, but it's also 80 miles from here and wouldn't be worth the small difference considering my old beater gas hog. So at least now I've got 3 26" front wheels (as well as the backs) and a set of wheels from a 24". With the requirement of buying 20 feet of tubing here, I might try the Meridian when I am eventually done since I already have the plans and will have plenty of parts.

I do have another question: So far, I haven't found any bikes with disk brakes that I could afford, and the parts on the net are a little pricey for me as well. Is it possible to use normal calliper brakes on the rear of the DeltaRunner, and if so, what would I have to do to mount them?

Also, does anyone have any pro/con thoughts on building a welder? I've seen some things I won't elaborate on right now because the current can literally kill you and I don't want someone without the knowledge to even think about it.

Dave

[Odd Man Out]

Also, does anyone have any pro/con thoughts on building a welder? Dave

I know that there are some in the forum that have done it -- and it does seem like a true zombie style type thing to do but...
1. Buying a welder gets you on the right track to learn how to weld "correctly"
2. Buying a welder from a company that knows what it is doing - Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc., - may save your life!!!

Long story short -- buy a welder. Trying to save a few bucks is not worth your safety and your welds will thank you for it.

[Patrike]

2. Buying a welder from a company that knows what it is doing - Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc., - may save your life!!!

Long story short -- buy a welder. Trying to save a few bucks is not worth your safety and your welds will thank you for it.

I would concur whole heartedly with that -- building a welder is possible, thunck about at one time myself -- I did the math and it did not add about in the end for time and money -- I barely have the time to do the building of the recumbents - where would i find the time to pi$$ around with building a have a$$ welder. I am very happy with Ra - name of my Lincoln welder:jester:

[JayRay]

Anewguy
Myself and a coworker were contemplating making our
own welder also. We even had a few microwave ovens
ready to strip down but then I went to Harbor Freight.

I picked a simple, easy to use stick welder on sale for
all of $90. Even at the regular price of $120 it is worth it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=98870

What I liked was the option of using 220VAC or 110VAC
input. It does not come with a plug on it so I put a four
prong socket on it and made two adapters for it. Now
I just plug it in to whatever is available and I am all set.

I have had no problem, other than my lack of welding
skills, using it home on house current. Even if I never
use it again I will have gotten my moneys worth out
of it just building my bike.

Below is an example of what the welder and
I can do when I am having a "good day"! :rolleyes4:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/JustJay2009/Main%20Beam/th_MainBeam-19.jpg (http://s459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/JustJay2009/Main%20Beam/?action=view&current=MainBeam-19.jpg)
(click to see larger photo)

I have also never welded before this build and
all of the above is of course just my opinion... :)
Jay

[Patrike]

Anewguy
Below is an example of what the welder and
I can do when I am having a "good day"! :rolleyes4:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/JustJay2009/Main%20Beam/th_MainBeam-19.jpg (http://s459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/JustJay2009/Main%20Beam/?action=view&current=MainBeam-19.jpg)
(click to see larger photo)

I have also never welded before this build and
all of the above is of course just my opinion... :)
Jay

That sure is a pretty weld!

[anewguy]

My biggest problem is that being on disability I don't have $50, let alone $120. I have placed adds on Freecycle and on Craig's List but so far the offers have been like $75 on up. I'm sure that is more than reasonable for a welder, it's just that I can't even afford $20 right now. Things are going to be real tight for quite a while.

On a side note, I can't remember if I posted this already in the thread or not, so......

None of the bikes that I could afford on the police auction had disk brakes. Can I use calliper brakes, and if so, how do I mount them?

Thanks guys!!

Dave :)

[savarin]

If you aint got the cash and can scrounge then have a look at these
http://www.green-trust.org/junkyardprojects/FreeWelderPlans.html
Like any endeavour in life just be very careful and do the research.