Meridian on hills

[mydriatic]

Hi guys.

I'm looking to build my first bike. I am currently leaning toward the Meridian with possibly using a rear road tire to help with rolling resistance. The MS 150 mile is my goal and there are hills.

My question is: For those of you who have (or know) more than one recumbent is it more difficult going up hills in a LWB bike vs a SWB or Meridian vs Tourmaster?

Thanks. My original post was "easiest build" in the HR forum so I figured this thread would be more appropriate here. Thanks.

[GregLWB]

Hi guys.

I'm looking to build my first bike. I am currently leaning toward the Meridian with possibly using a rear road tire to help with rolling resistance. The MS 150 mile is my goal and there are hills.

My question is: For those of you who have (or know) more than one recumbent is it more difficult going up hills in a LWB bike vs a SWB or Meridian vs Tourmaster?

Thanks. My original post was "easiest build" in the HR forum so I figured this thread would be more appropriate here. Thanks.

My HR climbs as well or better than my LWB bike with similar layout to the Meridian. That said on a recumbent it is all about spinning (higher cadence) and proper gearing.

There are others on the site who have far more info about this and I will defer to their expertise but I climb better on either of my bikes than I ever could on my DF bike.:jester:

Greg

[mydriatic]

Thanks Greg,

That's what I needed to hear. Makes decision making easier!

[mkane53]

I built a Meridian last June/July (2008) rode it for a couple of hundred miles worth of short rides (30 and 40 miles max) and then loaded it with panniers and took a week's ride to a bunch of river campgrounds in Northern Illinois. That included some pretty hilly country, since rivers are usually in Valleys. I did just over 400 miles in a week and that wasn't pushing it. I'm not sure that a recumbent climbs as well as an upright but I will say this, you're so much fresher when you're riding a recumbent because you're comfortable, that you've got a lot more energy to devote to hills because your neck isn't killing you from holding your head in a "Looking down the road" position for 6 hours.

As Greg said, you just have to get used to spinning. Don't try to brute strength it up a hill or you'll blow out your knees; finesse it by dropping a gear or two and spinning faster. If you're curious my post about the build is still on here "The Phoenix" and my post about the trip is "The Long Ride". I thought (and still think) the Meridian is a terrific bicycle. Superbly comfortable for long distance riding.

I've just completed a HighRoller (well it's not painted yet) but don't have enough miles on it to form an opinion about one being easier than the other. But I'm pretty sure when I go touring again this summer, I'll be on the Meridian.

[comreich]

Well, at this stage of the game I guarantee that, for me, the order of climbing prowess is my DF, my highracer and then my LWB (which is lighter than my highracer) which has the same wheel sizes as the Meridian. I'm thinking of swapping narrower tires onto my LWB to see how it rolls. Maybe it will climb better once I try that.

[trikeman]

I'm in the same boat as Comreich (albeit a slower one). My DFs will smoke both my recumbents on the hills.

I have read, but don't know from experience, that SWB recumbents such as the P-38 Lightning are better climbers than LWB machines. Sir Joey's Nexus or the KoolKat is perhaps the closest thing to that I have seen here. I suspect that my RANS Wave LWB climbs a bit better than a Meridian, since it has somewhat similar geometry but is lighter than a Meridian. Its definitely not the fastest way up a hill, and on really steep hills it is a bit unstable.

Comreich's performance on the HR might be a reason to go that way. Maybe he will chime in a bit more about how well it climbs. The Paris-Brest-Paris is 7oo+ miles and the fastest recumbents on that route are the low racers, such as the M5.

http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/uploads/Itemizer/popups/1578.2.jpg

The Marauder is the closest thing we have to that here, or 25Hz's Raptor. This thread might give you some ideas as to the style of bike people think would do best best on the PBP.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=48716&highlight=paris+brest

[Odd Man Out]

I hate to be the breaker of bad news but here it is:

Recumbents do not climb as well as DF's -- There I said it!

The fact is that while wedgie riders can use gravity and their body weight to power up hills, recumbent riders can't. If recumbent riders try to "power/mash" their way up a hill by pressing hard against the pedals, they risk physical damage to their joints. Recumbents need to gear down and spin at a high (90-120) rpm to climb hills.

Okay, so recumbents do not climb hills as well. Big deal. If you have not discovered it yet, let me share a secret with you -- life is a series of tradeoffs -- you can't have everything. Deal with it.

My manly ego can take the hits when DF'ers pass me on hills. My testosterone levels shoot back up when I repass them going back down the hills and on the flats...
I will make do with the lowly recumbent as I have no back, butt, arm, hand or neck pain as I ride. It's a trade off. Just sayin.

[GregLWB]

Odd Man and others - not everyone is a stand up and mash the pedals kind of rider on a DF bike going up the hills. If you don't ride like that (like me) a recumbent will climb as well or better than a DF if you are spinning.

I have a hill that starts two blocks from my house and I never made it to the top without walking unless I was standing on the pedals and at my max heart rate. I can take that same hill faster on my HR and my LWB bikes. On my HR the other day I rode up it and was easily able to have a conversation at the top (not breathing too hard).

So I guess what I am saying is that for someone who wasn't a monster rider to begin with a recumbent levels the field and makes it possible to do many things that you couldn't before.:)

Greg

[Odd Man Out]

a recumbent levels the field and makes it possible to do many things that you couldn't before.:)

Greg

Agreed -- Viva Recumbancy!!!

[trikeman]

Odd Man Out - just out of curiosity which recumbents do you own that you are smoking the DFs on the flats with? I know you built several Aluminum DWs, which are clearly lighter than my steel DW. My DW isn't going to smoke any well piloted DF, unless we are going down hill. Even though its low, its probably not as aero as a DF in a tuck, weighs twice as much, and has that extra wheel to contend with.

I can smoke some DFs on the flats on my LWB, which is pretty much a lighter Meridian with a Rolls Royce seat, but that is mostly the engine.

The only two recumbents in the AZ stable I see that are more aerodynamic than a DF on the drops are the HR and the Marauder.

That said, I can ride my LWB for 25 miles and feel like I haven't done anything except kick my legs in the pool for a few minutes. I sometimes worry I am not getting enough of a workout on it, and like Brad will have to start lifting weights for exercise [g]. Went out for another 25 on the LWB this morning and after being in so much pain on the DF yesterday - what a difference in comfort.

[Odd Man Out]

Odd Man Out - just out of curiosity which recumbents do you own that you are smoking the DFs on the flats with?
.

RANS V-Rex with upgraded components - Yup -- a smokin machine!

[mydriatic]

Hey guys,

THanks for the input. I went and downloaded the HR plans, went on vacation, took care of Birthday and Mom's day plans and now it's soon to be "Bike Time" Muhahahaha.

Um. Another question. Since I'm telling my wife I'm planning on building a bike, she is asking me if I can do that, I should be able to install the ice maker that's been sitting in the closet for 2 years.

[Odd Man Out]

Hey guys,
Um. Another question. Since I'm telling my wife I'm planning on building a bike, she is asking me if I can do that, I should be able to install the ice maker that's been sitting in the closet for 2 years.

Tell her that riding the icemaker is not nearly as much fun...:devil:

[comreich]

Well, I put another 29 miles on the highracer and I can tell you that it's becoming a fine climber. Not light -- the bike weighs almost 40 pounds -- but I was able to climb most of the hills in the big ring :) But in the interest of full disclosure, it was in the largest cog as well and the triple is a 46/36/26 :jester: The secret as others have said is to spin, spin, spin. Keep the pedal speed up and the gear a hair smaller so that you can keep the pedal speed up.

From what I understand about the Lightning P38, what makes it a great climber is that the bike is really stiff and the position is quite closed. Think the normal hands-on-hooks position of a DF and rotate it backwards until the back is 55 degrees from horizontal or so.

Since I haven't ridden my LWB for a while, I can't really comment on the difference between it and the highracer. What I do remember of last year's ride on the same route, it's slower, but that could just as easily be the wide tires and out of shape engine. The engine is getting better, so maybe I'll take the long bike out on Wednesday and see what the new results are. I suspect the SWB highracer will still be faster given that the aerodynamics are better - the BB is above the seat and your body follows the wind shadow of the feet better on the SWB. The effect isn't so pronounced, I believe, on a SWB with a smaller front wheel.

But I like what Mydriatic is thinking with a 700c wheel on the back of the Meridian. I would probably go another step and straighten out the kink in the frame and raise the BB to get something more akin to the Easy Racer Javelin. But that's me :)

[John Lewis]

If you can smoke a roadie on a DF bike on the flats then you will probably do a better job of smoking him on a bent if the bent is designed fast. Eg narrow tyres, light weight and aero. and on the flat weight is less important but it will slow accelleration.

Climbing is all about power to weight. You are effectively winching yourself up the hill. A bent that was a light as a DF and with the same engine would climb as well or better. Wear a backpack full of bricks on your DF and you'll not climb any better than the bent.:jester:

Put a bent trained Lance Armstrong on a lightweight aero recumbent and compare his speed and climbing ability and I'm sure he'd be better on the bent. Most people who claim their bent can't climb are unable to climb on their DF either. It's all about the engine. My aging body won't climb or go fast no matter what bike I ride.

The two strikes against bents in my opinion are weight and the often lesser able rider. Face it recumbents are often ridden by less athletic older guys for sme reason. Yes that includes me. That said, in our over 50's cycling club I can keep up with most and I'm certainly not the last to the top of the hill.

For overall average speed climbing is important. You can never make up downhill what you lose climbing. So if you want to climb well get the weight down, both you and the bike, and work on improving the engine.

My SWB climbs best of my bikes followed by the LWB and the trikes come last. However I prefer to ride the LWB the best.

John Lewis