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View Full Version : Finished Tourmaster - First Commute!



GregLWB
05-11-2009, 12:55 PM
Hi All,

I love this bike!:scooter: I finished my TourMaster last week and stripped all the parts I could off of my old LWB bike. So the parts are the same (including the gas assist motor) except for the frame and a suspension fork and a 26" tire on the front. Today was my first day commuting on the TourMaster (53 mile round trip - still have to ride home later).

My ride in was much more comfortable and relaxed. I did not feel as tired after the ride. I felt far less road vibration. The bike was easy to balance at low speed due to the seating to crank angle and the remote steer. My average speed was about 2 mph slower than on the previous LWB bike (26-28 instead of 28-29 but still made the ride in just under 1 hour).

So my 2 cents is this. The TourMaster is a more comfortable design for longer distances and is much easier to adapt to power assist (either gas or electric) but I'm not sure you really lose any speed overall because I had a small fairing on my previous bike and have not yet done so on the TourMaster.

Here are pics of both bikes. The first one had a total of over 2000 miles commuting on it, over 1600 of that with a motor.
http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/gdfran0/LaBent1.jpg

And here is a pic of my TourMaster
http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/gdfran0/TourMasterBike/Picture082.jpg

Greg

graucho
05-11-2009, 02:55 PM
Wow! what a sweet ride. Everything about it screams ride me. The 35 Robin and the GEBE kit tucks in perfectly behind. A head turner for sure. Great job.

GregLWB
05-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Wow! what a sweet ride. Everything about it screams ride me. The 35 Robin and the GEBE kit tucks in perfectly behind. A head turner for sure. Great job.

Thanks graucho - I still need to figure out a cover for the light bracket in the front, but I guess that's the fun of these bikes. There is always something to tweak or change to make them perfect for you.:jester:

Greg

TheKid
05-11-2009, 08:03 PM
Looks great Greg. Any plans to add that fairing?

MoeMac
05-11-2009, 09:12 PM
Great Job Greg!!

It looks like this one will bring you many miles as well.... The motor thing must be a fantastic bonus Hu?

What part of the country do you live in?

Moe.

GregLWB
05-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Looks great Greg. Any plans to add that fairing?

Thanks Kid,

Yep, just need to figure out a style.

Greg

GregLWB
05-11-2009, 10:31 PM
Great Job Greg!!

It looks like this one will bring you many miles as well.... The motor thing must be a fantastic bonus Hu?

What part of the country do you live in?

Moe.

Thanks Moe,

Yep, I was loving the motor assist on the way home. Storm coming in and a really serious head wind. Still rode at 25mph average.:scooter:

I live near Salem, Oregon

Greg

John Lewis
05-12-2009, 12:49 AM
Very nice build Greg. The motor sounds like it does a great job of getting you there. How much pedal input do you provide?

Here our max 200w power means you must pedal uphill to help the motor. They are mooting a new law to give us 250W but the trade off is it has to be rigged so the motor only operates if you provide pedal input and must be governed to 15mph when motor is running. Also Savarin's state, Queensland has banned all ic motors on bikes. Electric only there.

Now we are waiting to see your fairing.

John Lewis

GregLWB
05-12-2009, 01:11 AM
Very nice build Greg. The motor sounds like it does a great job of getting you there. How much pedal input do you provide?

Here our max 200w power means you must pedal uphill to help the motor. They are mooting a new law to give us 250W but the trade off is it has to be rigged so the motor only operates if you provide pedal input and must be governed to 15mph when motor is running. Also Savarin's state, Queensland has banned all ic motors on bikes. Electric only there.

Now we are waiting to see your fairing.

John Lewis

Thanks John, I pedal quite a lot with it and especially on hills to maintain the speed and for the exercise. Over 26mph on the flats or downhill I don't pedal.:jester:

It will probably be a while on the fairing. Many other projects SWMBO has in store for me.:(

Greg

Patrike
05-12-2009, 08:44 AM
Hi Greg

Happy to hear it turned out the way you hoped - I took a glance at the old and new pic and until I read your input I did not realize they were diff rides.

That's a long ride to work you have - thus the need for the assist -I would have to travel about 38km one way myself so if I ever do it I will also have an assist - I don't like the thought of the smogger but a good little 4stroke might be required for me as well to make the assist feasible to help both ways-lots of hills.

Though over all I do not like the design - it serves the purpose well - I think the only thing I would change would be the seat - I need good lumbar support.

Great build and I wish you endless miles of safe cummuting.:punk:

Patrick

GregLWB
05-12-2009, 10:52 AM
Hi Greg

Happy to hear it turned out the way you hoped - I took a glance at the old and new pic and until I read your input I did not realize they were diff rides.

That's a long ride to work you have - thus the need for the assist -I would have to travel about 38km one way myself so if I ever do it I will also have an assist - I don't like the thought of the smogger but a good little 4stroke might be required for me as well to make the assist feasible to help both ways-lots of hills.

Though over all I do not like the design - it serves the purpose well - I think the only thing I would change would be the seat - I need good lumbar support.

Great build and I wish you endless miles of safe cummuting.:punk:

Patrick

Thanks for the kind words. There are electric systems that will go as fast and will still get you over 100 miles on a charge if you pedal along. These guys have in my opinion the best system (and it is purpose built for recumbents) out there, but I could not afford it at the time. www.ecospeed.com

You hit it on the head - this (TourMaster) is a purpose built design. It is meant for long rides/commuting. I have to mention though that it is so well balanced that just about the only time you ever have to steer with the handlebars is at low speed. With only minimal body input it lean steers like a fast road bike at any speed over about 10mph. It is really fun to ride.:sunny:

Greg

SirJoey
05-13-2009, 09:34 AM
Fantastic work, Greg! Some first-rate rides there, for sure!

ALMOST gives me enough drive to start working on one! A LWB bike is something I'd still really like to have,
which would bring me full circle, in a manner of speaking, since that's what the first one I ever owned was, 24 years ago.

It's about the only type of HPV that I'd like to have, & don't currently own.

I really liked mine, & have always regretted trading it off for guns... :(


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Patrike
05-13-2009, 10:04 AM
These guys have in my opinion the best system (and it is purpose built for recumbents) out there, but I could not afford it at the time. www.ecospeed.com

Greg

Hey Greg

I checked out the Ecospeed site - interesting. Has some really good points. Use of the existing gearing system is the key feature. The sticker shock is like a soccer ball to the gonads though! The other thing I noticed from the vid was the really winny noise coming from the unit - Mid drive unit, motor, controller? and the way the motor sticks out to the sides caught my eye as well - more noticeable depending on the ride it is attached to. For that much coin I would expect something less noisey then the Ezee hub motor and it has internal planetary gearing and you can buy great battery set with it as well for the price these guys are asking for the motor alone.

Over all, great looking and prefroming piece of kit - but they have to get their heads out of the clouds on that pricing - CNC parts or not. I think if they can get the unit down to 700$ less the batts and attaching kit they will grab a better market share.

At this point - the Ezee or someother Hub motor kit is looking better to my wallet -- but thanks for pointing me there - always nice to look at other tech stuff even if it is not within my budget.

Cheers

GregLWB
05-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Hey Greg

Over all, great looking and prefroming piece of kit - but they have to get their heads out of the clouds on that pricing - CNC parts or not. I think if they can get the unit down to 700$ less the batts and attaching kit they will grab a better market share.

At this point - the Ezee or someother Hub motor kit is looking better to my wallet -- but thanks for pointing me there - always nice to look at other tech stuff even if it is not within my budget.

Cheers

Like I said great system but it was out of my price range.:jester: That is the only system I have seen personally that even had the hope of going as fast as my gas assist and at the same time would give the weather resistance, ability to use the bike gearing, and also distance.:) I agree with you that they are overly proud of their batteries!:jester:

Thanks for the kind words Joey. You've been at this recumbent thing far longer than I. I remember making fun of those funny looking bikes even 10 years ago. Now I am a convert!:jester: I am pretty involved with guns due to my profession and am not sure I can agree completely with your statement but I think we all have things that we have traded off in the past and continue to beat ourselves up after hind-sight kicks in.

I hope that your personal situation improves soon and maybe you will build another LWB bike. My brother is in Iraq on his fourth tour, but he has a home in NC. Maybe when he gets back I could hook him up with you and you could show him what this recumbent thing is all about?

Greg

gbbwolf
05-13-2009, 03:04 PM
Great looking ride greg.
And we all have honey do lists..

Got my shed tore down and rebuilt at my place.

So now we have storage for bikes and tools.

Rain and T-storms today or I would get some shelves built and get my stuff organized.

Still debating my next build..

Marauder is looking like my choice.
Got a 24" suspension rear I am going to use, and the front suspension fork from it too, with a 20 inch tire in front.

Then comes the part of building a pedal-assisted side car, that's removable.

Think I will go work on lawn mower at mike's then maybe lay out some parts and get my idea generator going lol..

Nelson

Danner
05-14-2009, 11:16 PM
Now I see what you've been working on - it's a thing of beauty. Especially appreciated your comments about the steering and handling, they gave me a bit of feel for the LWB ride of this design. I can see falling in love with this. Keep us posted on the riding experience. Danner

GregLWB
05-15-2009, 10:00 PM
Now I see what you've been working on - it's a thing of beauty. Especially appreciated your comments about the steering and handling, they gave me a bit of feel for the LWB ride of this design. I can see falling in love with this. Keep us posted on the riding experience. Danner

Thanks guys.:)

Today I put mirrors on and changed out the bearings and cranks. I changed the crank arms to 170 (was going to do 165 but bought the wrong bolt diameter so used some I had on hand) down from 175. I also changed the chainrings from 52/43/32 to 60/48/39.

I took it out for a ride and with the bigger chain ring I can pedal with the motor assist right to it's top speed without feeling any dead spots in my pedalling. I hit a new top speed of 36.4 mph on a flat and pedalling with the motor. At my usual commuting speed of ~29 mph the pedalling is easy and the motor isn't working as hard. That should translate into better mileage but we'll see.

Earlier in the week I also installed the New Sturmey Archer drum brake and Velocity wheel on the front. They tell me there is a break in period on it and I will keep you all posted on my other thread about it.

Greg

GregLWB
05-15-2009, 10:22 PM
Oh, and here is a pic of it after today's changes. I still need to come up with a design for a minimal fairing to deflect some wind and rain. If any of you feel creative and want to give input on the fairing feel free to draw a picture and post it (I need some ideas).:jester:
http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/gdfran0/TourMasterBike/Picture088.jpg

Greg

Patrike
06-12-2009, 09:51 AM
Hi - have you come up with the fairing idea yet?

I was looking at the motor page. I am really torn. I want clean electric but need to have that speed and range of the smogger. I need to commute 33km one way so 66km a day for those numerically challenged :jester: (i used a calculator!). The cost for the batteries is a killer to get the range and you can't get 50kph out of and electric hub motor - I think. And the noise is still a we bit of an issue for me. Love the reviews on the page for the bike motors.

Electric motor
Pros -- quiet, clean, effiecient
Cons -- lower range, high bat cost, slower speed

Gas motor
Pros -- great range, good speed,
Cons -- noisey, dirty,

If I can't afford or use electric do to constraints, is it not a better solution use a small smogger instead of my big car engine - I am still making a better impact on the planet -- From the movie Contact:"small steps Ellie, small steps."

All input appreciated

Locutus
06-12-2009, 11:39 AM
Hi - have you come up with the fairing idea yet?

I was looking at the motor page. I am really torn. I want clean electric but need to have that speed and range of the smogger. I need to commute 33km one way so 66km a day for those numerically challenged :jester: (i used a calculator!). The cost for the batteries is a killer to get the range and you can't get 50kph out of and electric hub motor - I think. And the noise is still a we bit of an issue for me. Love the reviews on the page for the bike motors.

Electric motor
Pros -- quiet, clean, effiecient
Cons -- lower range, high bat cost, slower speed

Gas motor
Pros -- great range, good speed,
Cons -- noisey, dirty,

If I can't afford or use electric do to constraints, is it not a better solution use a small smogger instead of my big car engine - I am still making a better impact on the planet -- From the movie Contact:"small steps Ellie, small steps."

All input appreciated

Pat,
Consider the possibility of charging your battery at work. Then you'd only need one-way range. As for speed, try a hub motor designed for a 20 inch rim and put it on a 26 inch rim instead. Also increase the voltage. That's what I did with my eZee motor on my Street Fox. The eZee conversion kit is designed for 32 KPH (20 MPH) with either size wheel that they come with, using a 36 volt battery pack. The motor that comes laced to a 20" rim is wound for higher RPMs to attain the same speed as the motor laced to a 26" rim. By using a 48 volt pack instead of 36 volts, and relacing the (20" rim) motor onto a 26" rim, my plan was to increase top cruise speed from 20 MPH to 30+ MPH. (isn't that about 50 KPH?) Some torque is sacrificed by doing this but the eZee motor has pretty good torque to begin with, due to the internal gearing.

Also, consider using NiCad batteries. In the long run they're cheaper than lead acid because you only need about 60% of the amp hour rating for the same range as lead acid, and they last much longer in terms of cycle life. They're also considerably cheaper than either NIMH or Lithium chemistries. I just got to the point in my build where I can start road testing the range of my battery pack, but I'm using an 8 amp hour, 48 volt NiCad pack, hoping to get about 20 miles range at full speed. We'll see. This battery is only 17 pounds and measures about 10.5 x 6 x 3.5 inches. Tucks neatly under the seat.

One more thing: If part of your goal is a bit of exercise, it might be okay to have your motorized range a bit short of your total commute, especially if you don't have to contend with big hills near the end. For example, if your commute is 33 KM, a battery that gives you a 25 or 30 KM range might be sufficient, as you would only have to rely on your leg power for 3 to 8 KM. This assumes you can charge you battery at work.

Go to http://www.ebikes.ca for more information. This site and store is run my the same guy that rode an electric-assist bike across Canada last year and met up with Brad along the way. Pretty knowledgeable chap and the website also has a wealth of information.

Patrike
06-12-2009, 03:52 PM
[QUOTE=Locutus;25793]Pat,
Consider the possibility of charging your battery at work.

Also, consider using NiCad batteries. Tucks neatly under the seat.

One more thing: If part of your goal is a bit of exercise,

Go to http://www.ebikes.ca for more information. QUOTE]

Hey Locutus -- thanks, some things to considered - I had forgotten about re charging at work - thanks for reminding me.

I had thought about Nicads - have not done pricing yet.

As for the excercise thing - only with the wife :jester: -- Yes I want to assist the motor but I want to get to work not so tired. To work is more down grades - so the motor assist will be more relevent on way home.

I don't have to do 50kph(31.06mph) but at 33km a trip I would like to take it below 1hr for the commute. So it I could average out at 40kph(24.8mph) that would not be to bad - that may even beat some of my cummute times home in my car. :rolleyes4:

Locutus
06-12-2009, 04:53 PM
[QUOTE=Locutus;25793]Pat,
Consider the possibility of charging your battery at work.

Also, consider using NiCad batteries. Tucks neatly under the seat.

One more thing: If part of your goal is a bit of exercise,

Go to http://www.ebikes.ca for more information. QUOTE]

Hey Locutus -- thanks, some things to considered - I had forgotten about re charging at work - thanks for reminding me.

I had thought about Nicads - have not done pricing yet.

As for the excercise thing - only with the wife :jester: -- Yes I want to assist the motor but I want to get to work not so tired. To work is more down grades - so the motor assist will be more relevent on way home.

I don't have to do 50kph(31.06mph) but at 33km a trip I would like to take it below 1hr for the commute. So it I could average out at 40kph(24.8mph) that would not be to bad - that may even beat some of my cummute times home in my car. :rolleyes4:

Pat,
Your commute sounds very similar to mine, both in terms of distance and your speed and time goals. I spent considerable time trying to figure out the best combination to get me there. At first the eZee motor sounds like one of the most expensive options until you consider that it's a complete kit with all the electronics and hardware you need to make a quick conversion. Here in the Northwest I also had to consider wet weather, and the eZee components came out on top there as well. Plus, it's a more precision-built motor and perhaps more durable than the Crystalites, and made in free China (Taiwan), not Communist mainland China. It's also available in a rear wheel, disc brake version.

In deciding what you can afford, consider the two men who bought tools. The first bought inexpensive tools and was well pleased when he bought them, but not so much when he used them. The second man bought the best tools available and felt extravagant when he bought them, but well pleased when he used them.

Danner
06-12-2009, 06:07 PM
Pat, in the spirit of "all input appreciated", I wouldn't assume that a small smogger would be better for the planet than a decent car engine. For example, I believe the typical lawn mower engine produces more emissions than a decent car engine, per hour, all things being equal. Electric is probably the best way to go environmentally. (Except possibly for the hydrocarbons they have to burn to generate the electricity at the power plant...) It's really not straight-forward which one is best. It may be best to just consider your performance needs, and take environmental issues out of the equation. Unless you find solid information somewhere comparing the two, and I haven't.
Danner

Patrike
06-12-2009, 07:30 PM
Pat, in the spirit of "all input appreciated", I wouldn't assume that a small smogger would be better for the planet than a decent car engine. For example, I believe the typical lawn mower engine produces more emissions than a decent car engine, per hour, all things being equal. Electric is probably the best way to go environmentally. (Except possibly for the hydrocarbons they have to burn to generate the electricity at the power plant...) It's really not straight-forward which one is best. It may be best to just consider your performance needs, and take environmental issues out of the equation. Unless you find solid information somewhere comparing the two, and I haven't.
Danner

Good points Danner -- My replay will be on my new thread "TM vs Momridian"

Patrike
06-12-2009, 08:02 PM
Greg -- I read most of your TM postings -- I could not find why you switched from your old cummuter to new TM -- the old looked like a good ride.

GregLWB
06-12-2009, 10:22 PM
Greg -- I read most of your TM postings -- I could not find why you switched from your old cummuter to new TM -- the old looked like a good ride.

The old one was a pretty good ride but two things I wanted to change were 'Tiller Steer' and I wanted dual 26" tires and a suspension fork. The TM is a much smoother and more stable ride. I don't feel so beat up after the commute on the TM.:jester:

Greg

Patrike
07-06-2009, 10:27 AM
Hi Greg

Have you come up with a wind fairing design yet. I though of you when I was looking over the exertrike site - thought this may meet your needs or some variation - does not look to hard to copy and conform.

http://www.exertrike.com/exercar.html

GregLWB
07-06-2009, 11:51 AM
Hi Greg

Have you come up with a wind fairing design yet. I though of you when I was looking over the exertrike site - thought this may meet your needs or some variation - does not look to hard to copy and conform.

http://www.exertrike.com/exercar.html

Thanks for thinking about me but no I haven't come up with anything yet. To tell the truth I have been really busy with family stuff and it hasn't been rainy and cold. I get more motivated to solve the problem when I'm cold and wet.:rolleyes4:

I have seen that design before and some variation of that may work. I also am planning on building a Delta Trike for myself this fall and that will be my winter commuter. I will probably concentrate more on a fairing design for that.

Greg