View Full Version : Long Ranger <=> Silent Speedster
My name is Liam and I'm a swiss student from Zurich. I'm about to start my final year of high school. During the final year at swiss schools, students are required to complete some sort of project and are only allowed to graduate if the project gets a sufficient grade. If not, the students are required to repeat the final year. A lot of people write scientific papers between 20 and 50 pages long, some write books and some build something accompanied by a written theoretical description of the mechanics and/or meaning (in case of art works). I myself have decided to build a silent speedster, however with the long ranger battery pack and hub motor,therefore maximizing range at the cost of speed. My goal is to get a bike with the silent speedster design with a top speed of 35km/h , and a range of 100 km. The reason i'm asking for help is because not only do I have no idea where to find such a motor, but I also have absolutely no idea what motor I'd need. As far as I can tell the motor used in the original plans was built into a 20 inch wheel and came with a throttle, etc. I'd really appreciate any information you could give me. Thanks!!!! Liam
Radical Brad
07-04-2009, 03:27 PM
Hello.
The hubmotor kit is the same unit on both bikes, but I upped the voltage on the Speedster for a little more speed. Larger batteries = longer range while more voltage = more speed.
My hubmotor is a small 400 watt unit. These hubmotor kits usually include everything along with a small battery pack...
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&safe=off&num=50&q=hubmotor%20kit&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Brad
greenevegiebeast
07-05-2009, 12:48 AM
Brad while we are on the subject. how well do they pull from a dead stop???
Especialy with a heavy load or on a hill.
Thanks Brad
Would something like this do?... I'd be getting the rear BMC V2 ... which is better though? the high torque or the high speed? And does an electric bike of such need a Freewheel?
http://www.electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/kits.html
oh and I've been looking around for batteries but I have no idea what to chose... should I go with sealed lead batteries?... Does anyone know which batteries are necessary to get the 100km range?
thx
Radical Brad
07-05-2009, 10:43 AM
A few answers...
Amp hours... that is what matters when choosing a pack for run time. Although there is no magic number, I have come to the conclusion that you need about 15 amp hours for an hour of typical non stop riding on an electric bike. The more you pedal, the farther you will go, of course.
Lead acid is your least expensive batty, but will also be the largest and heaviest. I only use lead acid because I do not think the extravagant cost of a lithium pack is worth the weight savings. Not to mention, the lithium packs are often very small (AH).
Never use "wet" lead acid, only choose sealed "gel" types. These batteries are often marked for wheelchair use. A typical sealed gel pack will last 3 years or more depending on use, whereas a typical car battery or marine battery may only last months under the same conditions. if you wipe out on your electric bike (as I did recently), a wet battery will cover you in sulfuric acid.
I am not sure about starting torque because my motor has a safety feature that does not allow it to run unless it is already moving at 5km/hr. This is nice because the kiddies often crank the throttle when I am stopped talking to people. If the motor did start from a standstill, I would expect dirt spinning performance.
Brad
greenevegiebeast
07-05-2009, 06:39 PM
sooooooo I guess that means you have been roll starting the silent speedster, and long ranger. starting on an up hill clime from a stop must realy be fun.
Radical Brad
07-05-2009, 06:52 PM
it takes only a small kick, which can be done from a sitting position. Although they do not make hubmotors like that anymore, I would choose the rolling start option again of I could.
Brad
sooooooo I guess that means you have been roll starting the silent speedster, and long ranger. starting on an up hill clime from a stop must realy be fun.
Locutus
07-05-2009, 11:47 PM
Liam,
Go to www.ebikes.ca where there is a wealth of the type of information you're looking for. Read especially the section on battery chemistries. Brad is right about the extravagance of lithium batteries (and NiMH also, in my opinion). But there is an often overlooked alternative to all three of these chemistries, and that is NiCd (nickel cadmium). NiCd batteries are half the size and weight of lead acids for the same amp hour rating. In addition, you can get the same range with about a 30% lower amp hour rating because you can drain NiCd batteries completely flat without damage, unlike lead acids, which can be permanently damaged by discharges of greater than 70%. NiCds also typically have a higher discharge capacity ("C" rating), which is important for sustained loads. Finally, cycle life is much longer with NiCds than with lead acids. You might get 200 to 500 charge cycles with a lead acid battery, depending on how hard you use it and how deeply you typically discharge it. A good quality NiCd pack might last 1000 cycles or even longer. So the NiCd pack may actually end up costing less in the long run.
I used a 48 volt NiCd pack in my Street Fox build. So far I've been getting top speeds of about 28 miles per hour. My test runs were full throttle and I got a range of about 16 miles or so. If I were to go a bit slower I think I would increase range considerably. The motor is an eZee rear hub motor. To get higher speed I used the model that is wound for a 20" wheel. I then refitted to a 26" wheel. You can read about my build here:
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?t=2295
I think for the range and speed you are after you will need a better battery than Lead Acid. At moderate speeds you might be able to get by with only two of the 48 volt NiCd packs like I used. Rig them in parallel, or fit the power circuit with a toggle switch to alternate from one pack to the other.
I'd go with a hub motor for their unrivaled efficiency. The more powerful motor you use the faster it will drain your batteries. Consider choosing a lower powered motor that will still acheive the speed and torque levels you require, in order to optimize the range of whatever battery pack you decide on.
I have a question though Locutus... .where did you find NiCd packs with enough voltage and Ah... all the ones that have the right voltage only seem to have around 3000 mAh....
thx
Patrike
07-08-2009, 04:25 PM
I have a question though Locutus... .where did you find NiCd packs with enough voltage and Ah... all the ones that have the right voltage only seem to have around 3000 mAh....
thx
http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_batteries.php
Most of the hub motors that i find on the internet are meant for the front wheel. Seeing as i'm building a silent speedster which has no pedals and no freewheel, would it be possible to buy a front wheel hub and use it as a back wheel?
thanks
GregLWB
07-15-2009, 01:28 PM
Most of the hub motors that i find on the internet are meant for the front wheel. Seeing as i'm building a silent speedster which has no pedals and no freewheel, would it be possible to buy a front wheel hub and use it as a back wheel?
thanks
You should be fine doing that. I think that the motor that Brad was using on the front of the bike that he wiped out on has also been used on the CB Trailer, and possibly his SS.
Greg
Radical Brad
07-15-2009, 02:10 PM
Yes, I only have that one motor, and it is a front motor. The only issue is if you plan to also have human input.
Brad
greenevegiebeast
07-15-2009, 02:28 PM
Yes, I only have that one motor, and it is a front motor. The only issue is if you plan to also have human input.
Brad
Brad you would think that with all the busness that you have brought the motor builders they would give you a discount or give you a motor.
Radical Brad
07-15-2009, 09:52 PM
I wish! Free is really good for me, no doubt.
Actually, Jeurgen at RideMore.ca did give us a deal on that motor, so I plug his site when I can...
http://www.acclivity.ca/electric_bike.html
He does know his stuff.
Brad
Brad you would think that with all the busness that you have brought the motor builders they would give you a discount or give you a motor.
Thanks a lot guys!!!! btw... does anyone know what motor is used on the original SS? and more importantly ... where to find it?... :D
Oh and I live in Europe... is there anyway to order a WE motor overseas? a lot of these kits can only be ordered to the USA or Canada... so if possible does anyone know a european provider?... and it's really important that I can start the motor from a stand still.... the SS doesn't have pedals so having to start it at 5kmh or so would be challenging^^