Size questions from newbie

[Coach]

I need some advice. I just finished my first trike (Delta Runner) a couple of weeks ago and am now ready to jump into another. I had planned on it being a streetfox tadpole but this Warrior looks pretty awesome. On my Delta I modified some things for my size such as bigger axle, frame, seat, ect. My question is can modifications be made for a tadpole to accommodate more weight? What are the general weight limits for most tadpoles since they are shorter or does that even matter. Is the Warrior lower to the ground than the Streetfox? I am eager to begin but can't decide between the Streetfox, the Warrior or maybe another Delta or Quad. I am open for all suggestions. Thanks

[Radical Brad]

The Warrior is definitely lower than the StreetFox, but will have similar loading capacities. The first item of concern will be the rear wheels on both trikes. After 250 pounds, you need to think about top quality rims or even move into 48 hole rims. The front wheels and frame will be fine. Use guests on corner joints as recommended.

Brad

[PeterT]

but will the guests be comfortable holding his bike together?

maybe not but you could try using gussets to hold everything in place :cheesy:

[SirJoey]

but will the guests be comfortable holding his bike together?
I was wondering the same thing.
I don't think I wanna be a guest at Brad's house... :jester:


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[Radical Brad]

Yep, they may tire out fast, so a gusset may also work. That is if my speelcheker allows such words here!

[Coach]

I want to thank all my guest for helping with this question. So the wheel will be the weakest link not the frame. I guesst I will be lookin for stronger wheels. Thanks Brad

[PappaBear]

In 2007 I was doing great, and had begun riding a suspended mountain bike the nearly 21 miles to work through the week. Then everything happened all at once. Rotator cuff surgeries and a groin problem that required surgery put an end to my conventional bike riding for anything other than short trips. I began looking at recumbent's on the suggestion of my urologist.

I fell in love with cycling. We have a beautiful 70 mile "Rails To Trails" ride in our area that goes through one of the nicest State Parks ever. I miss getting out and cycling those trails with my 8 year old boy. But poor man that I am, I knew there had to be another way ... which eventually led me here.

Please forgive some of my ignorant questions. I have never really been very good at mechanical precision. I admire many of you that post here and try to soak up as much knowledge as I can.

Anway ... I have put on over 100 lbs in the past 18 months and now tip the scales at a hefty 360 due to the health problems mentioned above. Once I get a working model, my hope is to take that off and get back to cycle commuting. I had my heart set on the StreetFox Tadpole as my ride of choice, but my greatest concern is the load on those front wheels. I have been able to collect some BMX rims for the front (One is 36 spokes, the other 48 -- still looking for another 48 spoke rim to make a matched set). But is it the REAR suspended wheel that would be the weakest?

I was talking with a dealer about 2 hours from where I live, and he tried to discourage my interest in a tadpole design due to my weight. He urged me to consider a Sun USX HD delta design, instead. From a design point of view, is a tadpole weaker than a Delta? Or is a Delta just a wiser choice because of making your own beefier hubs? Would using the "top quality rims" as you suggest handle that kind of load, do you think?

AZ ...many others here have said it, but "thank you for sharing your Evil Genius" just cannot be said enough.

[trikeman]

PapaBear - I don't think there is anything inherent in the tadpole design that makes it any weaker than a delta. As long as you use large enough tubes and beefy enough hubs any of them will support your weight. If you take a look at Brad's StreetFox vs the DW, for example, you will see the same size tubes running from the center tube to the wheels. You can build either with very large axles on the rear or front wheels.

Exercise alone will not control your weight. (Don't ask me how I know lol). Its way easier to eat a lot of calories than to burn them off. Most of us struggle with that problem as we get a bit older than 30.

[Radical Brad]

The rear wheel on the Warrior and StreetFox would be the one to collapse if you hit the limits of loading while cornering. At 350, you will certainly have to be mindful of high speed corners and braking limits, but with the larger wall tubing and a gusset on every critical joint, the trikes would hold up.

Here are some alternatives in the order I think they are most robust...

1) The LodeRunner. No mods needed at all.
2) The DeltaRunner with 48 hole 20 inch rims on the rear and 3/32 wall tubing.
3) Either tadpole trike with high quality 20 inch wheels all around and 3/32 tubing.

I think they recommended the Sun delta because the seat is high enough that you will easily tip before stressing the rear wheels in any way. It does look strong.

Brad

[ken will]

We have a beautiful 70 mile "Rails To Trails" ride in our area

Most Rail Trails don't have tight corners, so any of these trikes should be fine.

with the StreetFox/Warrier you could lengthen the distance from the seat to the rear wheel which would put less weight and stress on the spokes or use a 20" rear wheel.

[PappaBear]

Exercise alone will not control your weight. (Don't ask me how I know lol). Its way easier to eat a lot of calories than to burn them off. Most of us struggle with that problem as we get a bit older than 30.

Thanks, Trikeman! I understand about the weight. The corollary is that diet alone will not control weight, either. I am endeavoring to find an enjoyable way to balance the equation and take off over the next 18-24 months what the last 18 months or so has added.

[PappaBear]

The rear wheel on the Warrior and StreetFox would be the one to collapse if you hit the limits of loading while cornering. At 350, you will certainly have to be mindful of high speed corners and braking limits, but with the larger wall tubing and a gusset on every critical joint, the trikes would hold up. Thanks! That advice helps.

Here are some alternatives in the order I think they are most robust...

1) The LodeRunner. No mods needed at all.
2) The DeltaRunner with 48 hole 20 inch rims on the rear and 3/32 wall tubing.

Having looked at those, I have to fight to balance my wants versus my needs. I am plagued by the desire to have all those, and more (a Meridian, a Delta Wolf, a tandem to encourage outings with the wife, and maybe even a Tourmaster). I have collected about 10 various bikes so far to use, and others are on the way. But I have to begin somewhere. My son wants me to build him a quad and a Spncycle, as well. My wife just wants something done with all the old bikes and parts. :)


3) Either tadpole trike with high quality 20 inch wheels all around and 3/32 tubing.

I just got 2 bikes with 20 inch wheels that are suspended in the rear. Both have big hubs.... Thanks! That may very well work out.

[PappaBear]

with the StreetFox/Warrier you could lengthen the distance from the seat to the rear wheel which would put less weight and stress on the spokes . I like that idea. I seem to recall someone posting something about feeling the road vibrations because of hooking the suspension to the seat post. Lengthening the distance a bit, in essence placing the seat tube a little ahead and separate of the rear may help that.

Well ... I tore another 10-speed down to the frame tonight. I have two matching forks and head tubes cut out and needing to be cleaned up sometime this week. I will need to pick up some steel, and do a lot more practice on this little mig welder. I hope to have SOMETHING to start riding/training with before the weather gets rough. Thanks!

[Freth]

Here's my 2 cents: those 20mm front hubs are used on MTB bikes for hopping from boulder to boulder and over logs ... I think they can take it and then some.

As far as the rear wheel goes, go to the following link and look at the REALLY sturdy 26" rear wheels that they use for motorized bicycles -- scroll down ... http://www.bikeengines.com/orderpage2.htm
One of those babies should handle it.

As far as the frame goes: use 14 ga. thickness tubing, put gussets (extra pieces overlapping and welded on) to support the junction of the seat tube and the main tube. That will be your weakest point ... with the greatest pressure to flex. Reinforce that area.

Your weight is actually cradled between all 3 wheels. About a 60/40 split between rear and front.

[GregLWB]

As far as the rear wheel goes, go to the following link and look at the REALLY sturdy 26" rear wheels that they use for motorized bicycles -- scroll down ... http://www.bikeengines.com/orderpage2.htm
One of those babies should handle it.


I purchased one of those wheels and have ridden a lot of miles with it. I even ran over a racoon at ~20 mph one day, didn't even faze the wheel. And I too am a big guy (~300 lbs)

Greg

[Big Moe]

Hey here's another what if. What if I put a 20" rear wheel on to take the side thrust of my 300 lb butt? Just needs minor mod on the rear end. With all the cassette ration options, etc. as well as chain ring options it should be easy to match any performance requirements.
Watch think Brad?
MOE - three wheels and an old crank.

[Freth]

If you put a 20" wheel on the rear ... You will have to make significant mods to the seat tube (i.e. shorten it) or that low point won't be 5" off the ground ...

Then you'll have to weld some extension on to support the seat.

[John Lewis]

If you put a 20" wheel on the rear ... You will have to make significant mods to the seat tube (i.e. shorten it) or that low point won't be 5" off the ground ...

Then you'll have to weld some extension on to support the seat.

I think you could move the "chainstays" down the seat tube and lengthen them a little to keep the same wheelbase. Anything is possible with a bit of ingenuity. I only downloaded the plans last night and yet to study them carefully.

John Lewis

[swizz69]

Big Moe has hit the nail on the head. A rear wheel on a tadpole needs to be strong to stand up to sideways thrust.

A 36 spoke 26" wheel is fine on a regular bike with a rider & two pannier bags full of stuff. Most f the stress its under is bearing down on the wheel whether cornering or sat upright. On a tadpole the wheel doesn't lean into a bend, so when cornering upright, the weight of the trike tries to force the wheel sideways. A 20" bmx wheel will take far more stick - if you use a hub that spreads the spokes out as wide as possible too - it gets even stronger!

[PappaBear]

Okay ... I did come up with a possible alternative. I was looking at the local motorized shop and am thinking a motorcycle front wheel may just do what I need for that rear wheel on a Warrior. It is 18 inches, has 36 hefty spokes, a disc brake attached, good bearings, and a 14 mm axle. Now ... to adapt a regular bike cassette .... hmmmm....

[bikenstock]

Pappa:
I have a commercially built Catrike tadpole with a 20" rear wheel and a 9 speed drivetrain. The derailleur cage hangs down to within an inch of the ground. So if you go for an even shorter (smaller diameter) rear wheel, that may become an issue.
My Catrike is rated to 275 lbs rider weight, but I am well above that and have had no problems. I bought Street Fox and Warrior plans and the trike I am building will be a hybrid of the two. It will have a commercial rear triangle like the Street Fox, be unsuspended like the Warrior, with a 26" rear wheel like both and have fillet brazed thin-wall round chromoly(sp?) tubing like neither one. Best wishes on building a trike and losing the weight you don't want!
Don