Angle confusion

[darwin-t]

While reading the plans for the Voyageur I noticed something that was confusing, at least to me. It concerns the 30 degree angle for the seat back tube. I believe that this is 30 degrees from VERTICAL and not horizontal. It looks like the adjustable square is actually set at 120 degrees (90 to vertical plus another 30 for the amount of recline), but the instructions say that it is set to 30. Also, this angle is not the amount of actual recline - I'm building a bike loosely based on these plans - no suspension - and the angle of incline of the main tube is 15 degrees - I set the seat back angle to 110 (10 degrees steeper than the plan called for) so actual recline is 55 degrees for me. 110 + 55 + 15 = 180. If I use the smaller fork and front wheel, the incline is 10 degrees, which would make the actual amount of recline at 50 degrees. I had no idea what the main tube angle would be until I got the frame done and the wheels on.

Later when discussing the angle of the steering axis, it properly shows the angle as set from the ground - a horizontal line.

Other than that, the plans are a big help. I'm using 1 x 2 square tubing for this one, but hope to build one with suspension and round tubing as shown in the plans next.

Thanks.

[Odd Man Out]

Hey
More posts like this one and I won't have to shell out the bucks for the plans, all I will have to do is search through posts -- Thanks.


Seriously, Kat should delete the part in your post that is specific. But then again the damage is done.

Be Careful About Releasing Proprietary Information When You Post!!!

[darwin-t]

If you can figure out how to build one based on the angle of the seat back tube, you're a lot smarter than me.

The plans are VERY good and had stuff I never would have thought of. I was very impressed with the cleverness of the design and the details.

[Odd Man Out]

If you can figure out how to build one based on the angle of the seat back tube, you're a lot smarter than me.

It does not take a smart person to pick up on the angle that you posted and to search through other posts and find other angles, measurements and comments that people have made the mistake in posting. I agree that if you were the only person to make this mistake that it would be no big deal -- sadly you are not. Ergo I feel the need to be the conscience of the forum. I am sure that none of us want to contribute to ripping off Brad and Kat in any way.

Be Careful When Posting Information -- Think Of Brad And Kat

[darwin-t]

It doesn't take a smart person to print out a photo of a bike and use a protractor to figure out the angles either.

If I did something wrong then I apologize. I sent a PM to AtomicZombie (who I assume is Brad) with the info in my original message. I intended to delete my original post or delete all of the info out, but the software won't let me. Brad or Kat will have to delete it if they are uncomfortable with it.

I was merely trying to point out something that was confusing to a beginner that they may not have seen as such.

I guess you have missed some of my other postings where I discussed steering axis angles and trail, hmmmm. I guess one shouldn't discuss specifics here. At least someone could put up a sticky saying what can and cannot be discussed.

[savarin]

Personally OMO I think you are becoming somewhat paranoid on this subject.
I believe Darwin-T has a valid question there.
The questions asked above are an honest attempt to make sense of something he found difficult in the plans. If you have no access to those plans its virtually impossible to answer his questions as you do not really have the information to compare.
I very rarely use plans. My chopper with springer forks- no plans
My tadpole trike - no plans, my SWB full suspension - no plans, my marauder clone - no plans.
I have purchased the plans for the warrior because I need to build something very fast and didnt want to think for myself that deeply.
I've already made one change, albeit very small, I've already noticed something else in the plans that produces another spinoff, can I mention this or will it help others circumnavigate the reason for purchasing Brads plans.
I dont think so but if we continue in this vein most people here will become afraid of asking honest questions or giving their interpretations of said plans.
We, (the planet) have lost so much in the way of advancement due to patents, copyrights etc tying up ideas that I dont believe we should be emulating that system.
If someone posts the full plans on a file sharing site then take them down by all means I would be the first to let Brad and Kat know so they could pursue the matter further but lets not get so nit picky here.
I'm pretty sure if Brad or Kat do not like the content of a post it will be removed with a small note to the perpetrator concerned.
Just my $10 worth.

[KoolKat]

Brad and I have looked over the original post and see no cause for concern. Brad has his private messaging option turned off as he gets bombarded with queries, but feel free to PM me instead if you have concerns about posting something, especially specifics about particular projects.

All is well, friends. Let's take a time out, cool off and get back to business. :)

Back outside to BBQ in the snow again...:elf:

[Odd Man Out]

MY bad -- conscience has been switched off.
:sleep1::sleep1::sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:

[Radical Brad]

Hello,

I see what you mean about the angle... the arrow pointing to the other side of the tube was left out of the photo. Maybe I will just change the number to 120 Degrees, since there is more room on that side of the diagram.

Thanks for your input - hope to see your progress photos!

Brad

[darwin-t]

I am getting closer. I got the seat done today, but it has folds in it. For the life of me I don't know how you did the seat in the plans. I started at the front of the seat bottom and worked my way up.

Anyhow, I deviated from your plans in several ways. I used square 1 x 2 tubing, the BB isn't adjustable. I don't have a mount for the front derailer because I don't yet HAVE a derailer for it. I made the seat back a little taller so I won't have to make a backrest.The biggest deviation is the lack of suspension and the shorter than recommended main tube. This caused me to put the seat too far back which is going to make running the chain fun.

I didn't make any of these changes because I thought my way was better. I'm just trying to get a bike together with the materials I have on hand. Then I'll find a good donor bike, buy some round tubing and try to build one right.

It's a beautiful design and trust me, mine won't do it justice.

[Radical Brad]

Sounds like you will be riding soon. Hope to see the final photos.
I agree totally about there being no "right" way to do anything - just different ways.

For getting out seat wrinkles, try taking out a few staples after where there are problems and then pull the material again. Often, it takes a few tries to get them all out.

Cheers!
Brad