KoolKat
02-07-2008, 11:34 AM
Bikefranklin (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1321)
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 20:02:38 Hi, all:
Have any of you had experience with a gasless MIG welder? I used a regular MIG welder about 15 years ago, to weld up a go-kart. This was barely within my abilities, and stick welding is definitely out.
I feel that with practice, I could learn to MIG weld thinwall tubes. Flux-core/gasless MIG looks like a good deal because you don't have to mess with gas cylinders, or worry about the typical inert gas troubles. The flux-core wire is kinda spendy, but not prohibitively so. So, have any of you used one of them? Can you shed any light on their pros and cons?
Thanks in advance, -Dave-
SirJoey (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1216)
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 20:24:08 Dave, I'm still a novice to the world of welding, but from what I've seen (and been told), the gasless MIGs don't do as nice of a job. The welds may be just a good, quality wise, but they dont look as nice, & they seem to "spatter" more.
Maybe in the hands of a well experienced welder, they'd be fine, but as for me, I'll take the gas. One of the main reasons I went with it, was the fact that as a beginner, I figured I'd need all the help I could get, so if the gas welder does a little better job, then that's for me.
I definitely still need every advantage I can get, too, cuz I still have occasional problems with porosity.
*SirJoey* (Bent since 1985, but still not broken!)
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 02:21:02
I use flux core because I weld outside, and the gas blows away with the slightest wind, leaving weak welds. I find it easier and more convenient than stick welding, and the quality of welds is the same. With flux core, you still have to chip away the slag and the spatter, but it takes seconds, so it's not so bad. A friend of mine is an excellent welder, and even with my el cheapo machine, his welds look great. a little sanding with a die grinder and medium grit paper, and his welds are ready to paint. I've progressed to the point that my welds need sanding with 60 grit followed by 80 grit and 120 grit flap disks on my grinder, and the need for glazing putty has all but disappeared.
I buy 10 lb. spools from Jack's Small Engines online for $60. That's about $3 a lb. cheaper than Pep Boys, and $4 a lb. cheaper than Home Depot.
I find the .030 wire is better for the thinwall tubing than .035. Neater welds, and less of of chance of burning holes in the steel.
I'm in the process of making a feed spindle for the 10 lb. spools, which are too large for my welder. It sure beats hand winding the wire onto the empty smaller spools.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."
Bikefranklin (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1321)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 03:01:03
Guys:
Thanks for your input. While I want good-looking welds, like the Kid I plan to weld outdoors. Gas blowing away was one of my concerns, the other being simple displacement asphyxia if I were to weld in my basement.
Lincoln and Clarke both offer flux-core MIGs for under $200. that would probably fit the bill. My pal Christian is willing to weld my projects for free, but he says that he'll really need me standing by to help with fab and layout. We're talking 4 to 6 Saturdays away from home here. (Something that I just can't do.) So maybe it's time to invest and start improving my welding. Thanks again for the feedback, guys... you've given some food for thought.
graydog (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=409)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 04:59:30 Hi BikeF,
I use gassless all the time (well not all to time but mainly).
till now I have made quite a few bike and one solar car usually in 1.5mm steel box much for the same reason you say. It is cleaning, clean, clen and clean some more. Have a good wire brush to hand such that when you have welded the first part and wish to carry on the weld, wire it first.
use splatter spreay, but not too much else it cools the weld area too much. kept you wire dry and clean ( if like me you do one project every season change, you will fine the wire oxidises).
I have removed the gas sheild from the gun head and have sets of wire cutters and tip to hand. Take a full 10 dollar reel and just practice.
it is ture a good Gas system is just a dream, but most cheap 100-200dollar gas units don't have the same switching electronics in them. instead use the same set-up as the gasless ( my unit is a gas/gasless). So if you going to get bird poo welding chances are you'd get it anyhow with either. with pratice a good weld can to got form an arc unit and a light gauge stick, but again pratice.
I also use a flash mask one with adjustable tint.
of course to solution to no more welding is to make thing in carbon fibre ;o)
happy welding
Graydog
"if you see yourself coming in the other direction, you know you have been there before!"
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 11:46:11 Graydog mentions some good tips that I didn't think to add. Keeping those extra tips and a wirecutter handy, as well as cleaning the weld immediately can't be stressed too often. Slag and spatter start to oxidize immediately. There was one day when I was in a hurry, and welded several parts for a few different projects. I figured I could clean all the welds when I was done. After welding, I had to run an errand, which took a little longer than I planned. It was getting dark, so I put everything away until the next day. It was a damp day, and while putting the parts in the garage, I noticed rust was beginning to form on some of the welds. The next day, every weld had rusted. No big deal I thought, they had to be ground down anyway. After cleaning the welds and grinding, I continued with the welding, this time, making sure I cleaned the welds immediately. The damp weather continued for another week, and in that time, the clean welds were beginning to rust again. My friend said that was normal, and in this weather, if you're going to leave your projects in a damp environment, like outdoors or in an unheated garage, you should protect the welds from rusting. You can do this by coating your welds with oil, anti spatter spray, or primer to prevent the welds from rusting after cleaning and grinding.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 20:02:38 Hi, all:
Have any of you had experience with a gasless MIG welder? I used a regular MIG welder about 15 years ago, to weld up a go-kart. This was barely within my abilities, and stick welding is definitely out.
I feel that with practice, I could learn to MIG weld thinwall tubes. Flux-core/gasless MIG looks like a good deal because you don't have to mess with gas cylinders, or worry about the typical inert gas troubles. The flux-core wire is kinda spendy, but not prohibitively so. So, have any of you used one of them? Can you shed any light on their pros and cons?
Thanks in advance, -Dave-
SirJoey (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1216)
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 20:24:08 Dave, I'm still a novice to the world of welding, but from what I've seen (and been told), the gasless MIGs don't do as nice of a job. The welds may be just a good, quality wise, but they dont look as nice, & they seem to "spatter" more.
Maybe in the hands of a well experienced welder, they'd be fine, but as for me, I'll take the gas. One of the main reasons I went with it, was the fact that as a beginner, I figured I'd need all the help I could get, so if the gas welder does a little better job, then that's for me.
I definitely still need every advantage I can get, too, cuz I still have occasional problems with porosity.
*SirJoey* (Bent since 1985, but still not broken!)
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 02:21:02
I use flux core because I weld outside, and the gas blows away with the slightest wind, leaving weak welds. I find it easier and more convenient than stick welding, and the quality of welds is the same. With flux core, you still have to chip away the slag and the spatter, but it takes seconds, so it's not so bad. A friend of mine is an excellent welder, and even with my el cheapo machine, his welds look great. a little sanding with a die grinder and medium grit paper, and his welds are ready to paint. I've progressed to the point that my welds need sanding with 60 grit followed by 80 grit and 120 grit flap disks on my grinder, and the need for glazing putty has all but disappeared.
I buy 10 lb. spools from Jack's Small Engines online for $60. That's about $3 a lb. cheaper than Pep Boys, and $4 a lb. cheaper than Home Depot.
I find the .030 wire is better for the thinwall tubing than .035. Neater welds, and less of of chance of burning holes in the steel.
I'm in the process of making a feed spindle for the 10 lb. spools, which are too large for my welder. It sure beats hand winding the wire onto the empty smaller spools.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."
Bikefranklin (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1321)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 03:01:03
Guys:
Thanks for your input. While I want good-looking welds, like the Kid I plan to weld outdoors. Gas blowing away was one of my concerns, the other being simple displacement asphyxia if I were to weld in my basement.
Lincoln and Clarke both offer flux-core MIGs for under $200. that would probably fit the bill. My pal Christian is willing to weld my projects for free, but he says that he'll really need me standing by to help with fab and layout. We're talking 4 to 6 Saturdays away from home here. (Something that I just can't do.) So maybe it's time to invest and start improving my welding. Thanks again for the feedback, guys... you've given some food for thought.
graydog (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=409)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 04:59:30 Hi BikeF,
I use gassless all the time (well not all to time but mainly).
till now I have made quite a few bike and one solar car usually in 1.5mm steel box much for the same reason you say. It is cleaning, clean, clen and clean some more. Have a good wire brush to hand such that when you have welded the first part and wish to carry on the weld, wire it first.
use splatter spreay, but not too much else it cools the weld area too much. kept you wire dry and clean ( if like me you do one project every season change, you will fine the wire oxidises).
I have removed the gas sheild from the gun head and have sets of wire cutters and tip to hand. Take a full 10 dollar reel and just practice.
it is ture a good Gas system is just a dream, but most cheap 100-200dollar gas units don't have the same switching electronics in them. instead use the same set-up as the gasless ( my unit is a gas/gasless). So if you going to get bird poo welding chances are you'd get it anyhow with either. with pratice a good weld can to got form an arc unit and a light gauge stick, but again pratice.
I also use a flash mask one with adjustable tint.
of course to solution to no more welding is to make thing in carbon fibre ;o)
happy welding
Graydog
"if you see yourself coming in the other direction, you know you have been there before!"
TheKid007 (http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1224)
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 11:46:11 Graydog mentions some good tips that I didn't think to add. Keeping those extra tips and a wirecutter handy, as well as cleaning the weld immediately can't be stressed too often. Slag and spatter start to oxidize immediately. There was one day when I was in a hurry, and welded several parts for a few different projects. I figured I could clean all the welds when I was done. After welding, I had to run an errand, which took a little longer than I planned. It was getting dark, so I put everything away until the next day. It was a damp day, and while putting the parts in the garage, I noticed rust was beginning to form on some of the welds. The next day, every weld had rusted. No big deal I thought, they had to be ground down anyway. After cleaning the welds and grinding, I continued with the welding, this time, making sure I cleaned the welds immediately. The damp weather continued for another week, and in that time, the clean welds were beginning to rust again. My friend said that was normal, and in this weather, if you're going to leave your projects in a damp environment, like outdoors or in an unheated garage, you should protect the welds from rusting. You can do this by coating your welds with oil, anti spatter spray, or primer to prevent the welds from rusting after cleaning and grinding.
"We're all just catalysts between reality and what might have been."