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CharlieChops
03-13-2010, 10:24 PM
Well, I started the CharlieChops S/N 01 Street Fox. Bought and disassembled an inexpensive MTB and glommed a junker at the recycle center. Since I'm a husky sized fellow I bought a stick of 14ga 1-1/2" square tubing for the frame.

I had some 3/4" plywood that was a pair of sliding doors in its prior life so I used that make a frame table so that I don't have to work at floor level.

I apologize for my messy shop but I do have an excuse...I have 3 hot rods under rework or initial construction.

Here's a few pics of where I left off today.

Charlie

chainmaker
03-13-2010, 11:13 PM
Man I wish I had a re-cycle center near Me , come to think of it I wish I had a shop.
Cheers

Racer46
03-14-2010, 12:09 PM
Turn the camera around. We (I) want to see the hot rods too!

CharlieChops
03-14-2010, 10:15 PM
Turn the camera around. We (I) want to see the hot rods too!

Okay...can do.

The '40 Chevy convert has been in the stable for 31 years and 168,000 miles. ZZ4/700R, MII front end, Nova rear. Doing some long term rust rehab. Pictured at Yellowston a few years ago.

I've had the '64 Volvo almost a year. Sort of a beefy trans-am car make-over. Chrysler rear, homebrew MII IFS, 406 SBC with a T-56 6 speed tranny.

Charlie

Racer46
03-15-2010, 08:53 AM
The Chevy is nice but I think the Volvo is going to be SWEEEEEET!!!!

CharlieChops
03-16-2010, 12:41 AM
Today's job was to build a little jig to get the angle correct on my head tubes. Similar to what some other guys have done. Took about 10 minutes to lay out the positioning, an hour to build, 10 minutes welding time and an hour+ per part to clean up the welds. I'm happy with the end results.

Charlie

jimFPU
03-16-2010, 08:46 AM
Wow, this guy is good. Looking forward to seeing this build.

graucho
03-16-2010, 09:18 AM
Looking great Charlie. Thanks for sharing with the group. Keep up the great posts so others can learn... :rockon:

savarin
03-16-2010, 06:53 PM
Nice jig. I love jigs.

CharlieChops
03-19-2010, 06:02 PM
Nice jig. I love jigs.

Yep, me too,especially if I have to do two of something.

I have reached the point where I have the bike on the garage floor, pushing it around (making pedaling noises) and it wants to veer gently to the left. I have slight toe-in on the front wheels but I suspect it might be caused by the rear wheel, which is tipped a bit of the bubble to the left at the top. I set the caster angle it 15 degrees per the plan. Anyone have any thoughts on how to correct the drift to the left?

Fooling around with the steering on the work table I see a tendency for the inside tire to easily flop over. Since I'm going with disc brakes I set up steering rods by plotting the ackerman line, tacking short arms over that line and then and bringing the arms in a couple degrees so the intersection with the rear axle is a few inches ahead of the axle center line. Reading between the lines of the Thunderbolt (Horowitz) discussion of ackerman, maybe I went too far forward. What I'm not sure of is whether less ackerman places the intersection in front of or behind the rear axle center line.

Just sort of thinking out loud - from the pondering chair... Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks,

Charlie

CharlieChops
03-21-2010, 08:04 PM
Here are a couple more progress pics...one of the coilover brackets and just a front view. I got steering on it today and did a sit down test with a couple boards for a seat. Not too bad. My wife had my camera in use so I'll get some pics tonight maybe.

A little update of the comments I made in post #10 above...I corrected the ackerman and also found a little out of square (3/16" on one side) in the cross member to the rear axle which I corrected. Bike doesn't veer quite as far to the left now when pushed.

bustoff
03-25-2010, 01:33 PM
I'm finding your pictures to be very helpful. Keep them coming, if it's not too much trouble.

CharlieChops
03-25-2010, 10:10 PM
Here's a couple pics of the steering arms. I made a template first which produces a left and right steering arm. Rather than just butt weld it to the axle bracket I cut a half inch wide slot in the attaching end that lines it up for correct ackerman, and also attaches it to the bracket with what will amount to about 3 times the welding surface.

Glad to hear that the pics are being looked at.

Charlie

bustoff
03-26-2010, 09:53 AM
A picture is worth a thousand words. Can you imagine trying to explain these operations in words alone?

taytayou812
03-26-2010, 01:03 PM
This looks great so far. What are your plans for brakes? Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing. -Taylor-

CharlieChops
03-26-2010, 09:54 PM
This looks great so far. What are your plans for brakes? Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing. -Taylor-

I've got a pair of 185MM Avid rotors and BB7 cable pull calipers. I'm going to fabricate aluminum adapters for the front hubs. Similar to what Savarin did on his SF. In the rear I'm going to use the donor bike rim brakes as a parking brake. Haven't figured how to set it yet but how tough can it be...he said hopefully.

Charlie

CharlieChops
03-29-2010, 09:26 PM
Did a rough set of handle bars and trial fit the brake levers and shifter parts.

Also took a picture of how I determined the ackerman line to the rear axle. I put a wad of modeling clay on top of the hub and then placed a long piece of brake line tubing from the front steering bracket to the rear. The clay kept the tubing from rolling around at the back while I just held it in place in the front and marked steering arm pattern to fit over the front axle tab. It's not deadly accurate but quite close.

bustoff
03-30-2010, 12:01 AM
Did you say you bought an inexpensive bike for the rear of your SF? If so, what bike did you buy? I'm thinking of buying a bike to get me started. All the used bikes I'm finding are rusty, bent junk.

CharlieChops
03-30-2010, 09:53 AM
Did you say you bought an inexpensive bike for the rear of your SF? If so, what bike did you buy? I'm thinking of buying a bike to get me started. All the used bikes I'm finding are rusty, bent junk.

Yes, It was a NEXT brand steel MTB from Wal-Mart. Cost was around $90.

Charlie

bustoff
03-30-2010, 10:30 AM
Guess I'll do that, too.
I'm just having trouble getting over the idea of putting a lot of work into a project that starts with a cheap bike.
Like I said earlier, my last Walmart bike self-destructed after about 2 months of normal use.
Can you upgrade those cheap rear derailers? They attach and are built differently than the ones on better bikes.

CharlieChops
03-30-2010, 05:52 PM
I don't have an answer about the derailers on the cheap bikes. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. The NEXT bike I bought has Shimano 18 speed parts, I'm assuming bottom of the line. The tire and wheel looks good, So far I used the rear triangle. tire/wheel and will convert the rim brake into a parking brake. Used the pivot parts out of the frame, the spring assy, BB, head tube, 3 pc. crank and gears, shift components and may even be able to save the cables. Cut the handlebar in half and used it. A used donor bike for $7 produced a 3econg head tube and stem.

Granted, some of those components may need upgrading, but I also have 2 other bikes to ride.

I look at it this way...I wanted a tadpole and can't afford a store bought $3000 bike. I'll be riding this one for about $500. I may find out the tadpole isn't for me, so I can pass it on or part it out. If it needs upgrades then it will get them in due course. Who knows, maybe I'll have a quality $3000 bike for $1000.

I can say that I'm enjoying the change of pace with this build.

Charlie

Having built a lot of hot rods, my mindset is too rigid when it comes to building and upgrading projects. A guy can worry a lot about catching fish, but at some point he's gotta cut bait. No offense intended.

imamedik
03-30-2010, 10:39 PM
bustoff, the wally world components are good enough to use for setup and road-testing, especially if you do any welding with components or wheels mounted to help maintain alignment. that way you don't have to worry about damaging the good components with weld spatter or when you are first learning to ride your creation, besides you can swap out the wally world components with good stuff later on. :jester::jester:

bustoff
03-31-2010, 01:02 PM
I know what you're saying about cuttin' bait. I started cutting metal yesterday. I cut out my axel mounting tabs. They are ready to be welded together. On my way home from work today I will hopefully be picking up a Mongoose mtb that I found on CL.

Work has begun!!!:punk:

CharlieChops
03-31-2010, 03:48 PM
I know what you're saying about cuttin' bait. I started cutting metal yesterday. I cut out my axel mounting tabs. They are ready to be welded together. On my way home from work today I will hopefully be picking up a Mongoose mtb that I found on CL.

Work has begun!!!:punk:

Good! Start a thread and show us your progress.

Charlie

CharlieChops
04-04-2010, 10:04 AM
Got a little more done. I made up a pair of disc brake rotor adapters to go on the front wheel hubs. I used a small chunk of 3/8" thick 6061 from the bits pile at the sheet metal shop, Made a donut with an OD the same as the wheel hub OD and an ID to allow it to slip over the axle and nut. I plotted, drilled and tapped 6 #5 holes for the rotor and then a little further out I did another 6 hole circle for mounting the adapter to the hub. That hole set is counter sunk for 10-32 SS flathead allen screws so that they don't interfere with the rotor itself. I used red Loctite to secure the adapter screws. The rotors are Avid 185mm and BB-7 cable pull calipers.

Now I know why I'm not a photo journalist...no pictures of the adapters.

Once I started looking at caliper mounts I realized that the calipers are not lefts and rights. Bummer. That means two different brackets and that one side will be upside down...good thing I didn't go with the hydraulic system as it's tuff to bleed an upside down caliper without removing it from its mount.

Anyway, the brackets are made and everything snugged up ready for a couple tack welds.

John Lewis
04-04-2010, 11:55 AM
The hydraulic disks on my Logo Trike are exactly as you describe.It has not proved a problem.

John Lewis

CharlieChops
04-04-2010, 03:26 PM
John, I think I made more of a problem out of bleeding them that it really is. However I initially chose the cable version for the inherent simplicity/cheapness - there's a Scotsman somewhere in me...

Charlie

CharlieChops
04-13-2010, 11:46 PM
Have done some weld cleanup and painted a few parts. Major progress in the last couple days was to start building an aluminum seat. Made a cardboard pattern that looked good for the base and transferred it to some half-hard .050" stock. I used the basketball pole out back to bend in the basic shape. I used a piece of 3/4" round tubing attached to the main tube to support the front and then another across the seat support tube under the lumbar area. I drilled some lightening holes in relatively flat areas and then belled the holes.

The side bolsters are made from the rest of the .050" aluminum stock. This was some leftovers from the material I used to make the hood on my orange roadster. I bent over a 1/2" lip where the bolster meets the seat base and attached it with Cleco fasteners. Got one side done tonight. I'll work on the other side tomorrow and then take a run at tig welding the parts together. I'll make up a pad to sit on; the back portion will be bare. I did a similar pair of bomber seats for the roadster and the lack of upholstery on the back rests hasn't been bothersome.

CharlieChops
04-18-2010, 09:28 AM
A quick little update. I had a chance to go to the Terra Trike headquarters in Grand Rapids this past week. Picked up a pair of small delrin idler pulleys and got a test ride on one of their tadpoles. Having never ridden one, I was pleasantly surprised - and wow - they are kind of dainty.

Anyway, I installed the two pulleys in the same configuration as they do them. I looked for a shoulder bolt with an 8mm shoulder but would have had to order one from Fastenal. Instead I bought length of 8mm all-thread and a bag of nuts to match and made a 4.25" long 8mm bolt by welding a nut on one end. Drilled a hole through the very bottom of the main tube and passed it through and added spacers as necessary to stand it off from the main tube and have a slight gap between the two pulleys. Worked out very well.

I did all the cables this week also. I reused the donor bike cables with a couple minor reworks and had to make up a cable for the right front disc. I didn't have a cable stop on the BB/derailler tube so after much pondering I carved one out of a small chunk of 1/2"x1" rectangular alum. bar stock. It attaches with two 10-32 flat head s/s allen head screws into nutserts placed in the tube. I need to chamfer the cable exit hole as it still has a sharp edge.

I tack welded the seat together and promptly ran out of argon gas. I think I'm gonna trim the side bolsters a bit. It sets pretty nice but the real test will be out on the road.

Maiden voyage today - maybe.

Charlie

savarin
04-18-2010, 09:55 AM
thats turning into a very sweet machine:rockon:
Love the seat

John Lewis
04-18-2010, 11:13 AM
Charlie,

That is going to be one really nice bike. I'll be interested in how the "wings" on the seat turn out.

I'm sure the first test ride will be great.

John Lewis

CharlieChops
05-02-2010, 09:29 PM
Boy, time flies when you're having fun. I had the bike out after my last post about a week ago it but I while I did maintenance on the roadster so that I can start driving it soon.

I got back to the street fox yesterday. I redid the bars as they were too low and limited my turning radius quite a bit. I cut them off a couple inches out from the stem and re-oriented them similar to the direct steering bars on a Terra Trike. I bought a couple Mirro mirrors from the lbs and tried them first in the bar ends but had to move my head too far to glance at them, so I made a 3" long post out of some more handlebar stock and positioned them close to the end of the brake levers. They look around my big self quite well, so that's where they will stay.

I hadn't done a very good job on the first fitting of the Avid BB7 discs but I managed to get them sorted and cut out all the drag. They work fantastic. I like then so well I believe I will retrofit them to my Giant suspension bike when I rebuild it sometime this summer. It's a 2002 that just rolled 5000 miles and the gearing, chain, brakes and cables are due for rehab.

So, I got the street fox out yesterday and road it a few miles. I'm surprised how heavy it is around 50 pounds is my guess. I have a 300 limit scale in the shop. I weighed me at 251 and then stepped on it with the bike in my arms and it went TILT. Not much more I can do for that problem but there is still a chunk of main rail to come off in front of the BB and a few more lightening holes I can place here and there.

Pedal effort seems high, however the cranks are 5mm shorter than what I'm used to. The gearing is way off from the Giant also. With it I hardly ever go up on the big ring unless I've got a really huge downhill. On the street fox I had to get a couple - three gears into that ring to feel about right. That's something I will remedy when I find appropriate upgrades.

When I first rode it a week or so back I had a lot of pedal cadence front end wobble which may have been caused to some degree by the mal-adjusted front brakes. Seems better now. The BB assembly is slightly out of square so that the derailleur sits crooked. The idler pulleys can come in closer to the main rail - easy fix.

The seat does need a buttocks pad but otherwise works as I envisioned. The bolsters keep me well contained and I can corner it quite sharply even at 12/13 mph.

Overall I'm quite pleased with how it turned out. It'll probably never be done as I continually make running changes in the hot rods. No real difference.

kustombikes
05-02-2010, 11:03 PM
Man I am digging this sort of bike! I need to make me one out of all tubular parts! I so happen have a bike with that suspension at my disposal! HMMM. LOL. Jody

Racer46
05-03-2010, 09:03 AM
This is the first implementation of a rear shock on a trike that I like. The others, with the shock pointed forward, make the trike look too long. I may have to reconsider the Street fox.

CharlieChops
05-03-2010, 02:02 PM
The wheelbase ended up at 45-1/2". I could have squeezed maybe another inch - inch and a half out of that by moving the upright for the dropout back more. Another way to save a little more space might be use a seat post with the elastomer in it in place of the shock/spring.

I'd like to get a suspension SF down to a 40" wheelbase. This bike is near done but I will build another with higher grade parts secured first, then match drop out width as required for the wheel, etc. Next winter's project.

Charlie


This is the first implementation of a rear shock on a trike that I like. The others, with the shock pointed forward, make the trike look too long. I may have to reconsider the Street fox.

Radical Brad
05-03-2010, 02:20 PM
Nice work!
Would you happen to have a higher resolution photo I could put into the gallery?

Brad

CharlieChops
05-03-2010, 03:00 PM
yes, I can send you one...where to? Size desired?

Charlie


Nice work!
Would you happen to have a higher resolution photo I could put into the gallery?

Brad

KoolKat
05-05-2010, 03:12 PM
How about a ride report for the June newsletter? Refer to the April newsletter, page 5, for an example: http://www.atomiczombie.com/news/04-2010.pdf

Great job. Love that seat!:rockon:

gallery@atomiczombie.com

graucho
05-05-2010, 04:33 PM
Very nice work! Beautiful ride you've created.