LodeRunner Cargo Trike

[AtomicZombie]

Had a good day in the garage today!

http://www.lucidscience.com/temp/lrunner-1.jpg

Cheers!
Brad

[SirJoey]

Are you sure you don't have a factory there? :eek:

[TheKid]

When I put the head tube in on the hauler, I used the same method. I drilled the holes, but then I cut the front tube so the hole was halved. I was going to leave it and use extra piece in front for a possible fairing mount. I like the design. Simple, yet effective. If I had 20" wheels already made, I would have made the back of the hauler straight, but with the 26" wheels, the boom was too high for me to step over. At this stage, 3" is a lot.

[AtomicZombie]

For this frame the "can-opener" head tube through frame method was the only option due to the tubing being 2 inches square. I plan to use the extra front tubing as a headlight mount.

The frame on the LodeRunner is over 12 inches tall to help the vehicle feel more at home in traffic since all-out speed is not the goal here. Once the seat and seat suspension system is installed, the rider will be at eye level to most gas-guzzler pilots. The pillow blocks actually mount to another set of 1.5 inch tubes that are welded under the main rear frame to keep the disc brake out of the cargo area and to aid in final axle installation and alignment.

The adjustable BB is going to be much different than my usual design as it also sits under the frame as well.

The seat, battery box, and cargo box suspension is made using foam hockey pucks. Yep, hockey pucks! So Canadian like, eh?

I plan on using a fishing boat seat on this one as well.

Brad


When I put the head tube in on the hauler, I used the same method. I drilled the holes, but then I cut the front tube so the hole was halved. I was going to leave it and use extra piece in front for a possible fairing mount. I like the design. Simple, yet effective. If I had 20" wheels already made, I would have made the back of the hauler straight, but with the 26" wheels, the boom was too high for me to step over. At this stage, 3" is a lot.

[TheKid]

Being basically lazy, I use a 1 3/8" hole saw to make the cutouts for head tubes.
Foam hockey pucks? One of my ideas was to cut pieces of the floatation foam I have with a hole saw to put under the seat to act as a cushion. You could put bolts through this stuff and tighten it as much as you want and it won't break or crush. I figured 2 7/8" diameter pieces cut with a 3" hole saw, 1 1/2" thick would do the trick. Then I remembered I still had some valve springs from 30+ years ago, and thought they might work better.

[AtomicZombie]

Finished the adjustable BB and bearing mounts today...

http://www.lucidscience.com/temp/lrunner-2.jpg

The rear wheels are not spoked to the actual hub-axles yet - just sitting there. That is the next order of business.

Brad

[SirJoey]

On an exceptionally good & productive day (like today), I might crank out 4 hub flange blanks. :)

Meanwhile, AZ will build a FRAME!!! :eek:

[TheKid]

I thought the BB was going to be mounted to the underside of the frame. I was looking forward to this, to see if your design was the same as mine. I have 2 versions, but haven't decided which one to use. I'll decide tomorrow while it's raining, and build it over the weekend. I see where you may have a problem using 2" square tube, and having enough room to mount the derailler.
Are those test wheels, or is there another AZ invention about to be sprung on us? Somehow, I can't see making test wheels with 48 spokes.

[TheKid]

These are the rough drawings for the under the boom BB. I decided to go the easy route with version 2. I ran out of paper. Thank God for switch boxes.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Delta%20Hauler/000_0245Medium.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Delta%20Hauler/000_0246Medium.jpg

[AtomicZombie]

Yes, I had something similar to that planned, but let it go because the smallest ring would have problems with the 2 inch tube. Also, since I plan to use a boat seat on this one, the BB would have been a bit too low after adding the thick seat and seat suspension system.

Oh well, this method is simple, proven and easy to build - always a good thing.

Brad

[TheKid]

That makes sense. I didn't factor in the small ring, which, after checking, will make it difficult even with 1 1/2" tube. Thanks.

[AtomicZombie]

Also the width of the bolts on the outsides of the tube will be a problem - especially on the 2 inch, as there is only a small space between the tube walls and crank arms.

Another thing i ran into using the 2 inch tube is that the steering control rod cannot be connected to the fork leg or stem due to clearances. I am placing the steering control arm on the fork tube this time, but in this design, it works out best that way.

The 2 inch frame sure is strong though! Placed it on blocks and jumped on it as hard as I could. Almost no flex.

Brad

[robertwb70]

Looks kind of similar to my pedicab frame-except I went even FURTHER on the overkill factor, my frame is 2x4 14 gauge:eek:

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow since it's up to a rolling frame now and there are a few features you guys might like to see.

also the seats will be removable on my trike so it can be used for cargo hauling too- I think it should be good for somewhere around 1/2 a ton or so

[AtomicZombie]

Cool. You could haul scrap cars with that kind of frame!

Brad


Looks kind of similar to my pedicab frame-except I went even FURTHER on the overkill factor, my frame is 2x4 14 gauge:eek:

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow since it's up to a rolling frame now and there are a few features you guys might like to see.

also the seats will be removable on my trike so it can be used for cargo hauling too- I think it should be good for somewhere around 1/2 a ton or so

[AtomicZombie]

There are now 3 ways to create the hub flanges - machined disc, exact size washers, and hole saw as suggested here by fellow garage hackers.

I am going to try a 4th method when I do these wheels - grinder and file.

It should not be too difficult to trace out the discs on some 1/8 flatbar of plate and then rough cut around the discs using only the angle grinder. From there I will clean up the edges by grinding them round. Once round, I will use the paper template to find the center, and drill them with the largest bit I have - 1/2 inch. With a little work using a round file, I will hand file the holes to the required diameter - 3/4 inch in this case.

I am estimating that this process will take about 2 hours, but will require only a hand drill and angle grinder to do.

I shall report back when I am done.

Cheers,
Brad

[gbbwolf]

You all have lots of energy and scrap parts and metal.
Are you sure you don't have a machine shop there.
And a welding fabrication shop.
And a Mill for all the steel tube.
I'm Having hard enough time just finding the 1 1/2" square tube lol

Nice looking rolling chassis.
Get that baby finished I'll be the first to buy some plans.
Looks like another great AZ build.

[AtomicZombie]

Thanks!

My tools are very basic. AC welder, angle grinder, and hand drill. I do not own a lathe, drill press, chop saw, bench grinder, or any other tool that plugs into an outlet. I like to get by with the minimum, that way I know the plans will be easy to follow.

Brad


You all have lots of energy and scrap parts and metal.
Are you sure you don't have a machine shop there.
And a welding fabrication shop.
And a Mill for all the steel tube.
I'm Having hard enough time just finding the 1 1/2" square tube lol

Nice looking rolling chassis.
Get that baby finished I'll be the first to buy some plans.
Looks like another great AZ build.

[AtomicZombie]

This system is super strong and keeps the axles aligned during the build...

http://www.lucidscience.com/temp/lrunner-3.jpg

Brad

[Patrike]

Hey -- that is way cool how you set up those center bearings - but why 2 in the center. How you figured out that center is beyond me -- you must have payed attention in math class! I would have done the center like the sides but you way saves weight ans looks strong.

Patrick

[Patrike]

How the heck did you bolt down the outside bearing -- the only thing I can think is you welded them from the inside before putting on the other two angle pieces.

Patrick

[AtomicZombie]

Thanks.

To answer your questions...

The way I designed this trike, the outer bearings are installed while the axle is one length, this way the center bearings find their perfect alignment with ease as the center tube is welded to the frame. Because of the order of operations, it is almost impossible to have the axles misaligned after welding is completed. The single axle is then cut in half to make a right and left axle.

There are no bearing bolts. Threaded rod is cut and welded right to the frame to save weight and stop the 1/16 wall 2 inch tubing from crushing under the pressure of the bolts.

Brad


Hey -- that is way cool how you set up those center bearings - but why 2 in the center. How you figured out that center is beyond me -- you must have payed attention in math class! I would have done the center like the sides but you way saves weight ans looks strong.

Patrick

[AtomicZombie]

It took less than 2 hours to get this far on the hub flanges today...

http://www.atomiczombie.com/videos/hubflange/hubflange.htm

I will be drilling the spoke holes, welding them to the axles, and building the wheels tomorrow if Murphy and his laws stay clear.

Hope someone finds the method usefull!

Brad

[Patrike]

Thanks.

To answer your questions...

The way I designed this trike, the outer bearings are installed while the axle is one length, this way the center bearings find their perfect alignment with ease as the center tube is welded to the frame. Because of the order of operations, it is almost impossible to have the axles misaligned after welding is completed. The single axle is then cut in half to make a right and left axle.

There are no bearing bolts. Threaded rod is cut and welded right to the frame to save weight and stop the 1/16 wall 2 inch tubing from crushing under the pressure of the bolts.

Brad

Yah -- I forgot the wheels independent - thus two bearings for center.

I kinda understand what you did with the threaded rod welded to the frame -- did you cut a hole to partly put theaded rode in frame before welding them.

did you have to grind out around the bearing hole under seating area to accomadate for the weld bead.

Looks great so far -- now I am thinking of making one of these next and you don't even have it done!!!

Patrick

[AtomicZombie]

The threaded rod or headless bolts are just welded right to the frame tubing. The pillow blocks have a hollow area on the underside so the weld bead is not a problem.

Brad


Yah -- I forgot the wheels independent - thus two bearings for center.

I kinda understand what you did with the threaded rod welded to the frame -- did you cut a hole to partly put theaded rode in frame before welding them.

did you have to grind out around the bearing hole under seating area to accomadate for the weld bead.

Looks great so far -- now I am thinking of making one of these next and you don't even have it done!!!

Patrick

[Patrike]

Hope someone finds the method usefull!

Brad


I will definitely give this new hub method a try for my next build.

Patrick

[Patrike]

The threaded rod or headless bolts are just welded right to the frame tubing. The pillow blocks have a hollow area on the underside so the weld bead is not a problem.

Brad

Yah - I just noticed the hollow on the underside of the bearings -- not to sure I like the this method -- I like how it was done but not too sure it will be strong enough when your carring a load then hit something-curb or something of that hieght. You might shear those welds.

Patrick

[AtomicZombie]

Finished the hub-axles today and installed the seat as well.

The entire no-lathe hub flange process went very well and took about 6 hours from flatbar to painting...

http://www.atomiczombie.com/videos/hubflange/hubflange.htm

I think I took a few java breaks in there as well.

I will probably use this method from now on, as I do enjoy this work.

Brad

[TheKid]

I've yet to see a need for a machine shop for any of your projects. I'll stick with the hole saw method, because I have them, and I'll stick with drilling out the center hole, because I have the drills.
For those who don't want to invest in the hole saws and drills, this method is far better than going to a machine shop or buying washers that may or may not fit. One thing is certain, both methods add more parts that a hacker can say, "I did it myself".

[SirJoey]

...For those who don't want to invest in the hole saws and drills, this method is far better than going to a machine shop or buying washers that may or may not fit. One thing is certain, both methods add more parts that a hacker can say, "I did it myself".

Well said, Kid, & all true! Both methods have merit.

Brad's method is in keeping with his minimalist approach, & keeps the production within reach of the common man on a tight budget, with only a few very basic tools. Very kool!

Your method, with a small investment of more tools, is a little easier, & my personal choice. I don't mind spending a little money, to save a little work, being basically a lazy slug, as well as being physically (& mentally?) challenged.

As you said, "I did it myself" can still be claimed, either way! :)

[TheKid]

IMHO, hole saws, step drills and every size available drill bit are all desirable accessories for a 3/8" or 1/2" standard drill.
If all cutting was done with a hacksaw, and all holes drilled with a hand drill, and if necessary, enlarged with a rattail file, those methods would be absolute minimalist.
It takes too long for me to build these things as it is to use those methods. In my younger and more agile days, I would use those methods just for the heck of it.
I don't have a decent drill press, so all the drilling I do is with a 3/8" drill fitted with a 1/2" chuck, or a cordless 3/8" drill. At this stage, it' minimalist to me.

[AtomicZombie]

Wheel building and truing went well last night. As usual, I sat on the couch with a movie and worked on both wheels.

Managed to get the seat monting and axle fitting done today, but only had 2 hours to work on the trike, so not much else has been done...

http://www.lucidscience.com/temp/lrunner-4.jpg

Only the transmission and steering parts have to be done now.

Brad

[SirJoey]

...hole saws, step drills and every size available drill bit are all desirable accessories for a 3/8" or 1/2" standard drill.

I couldn't agree more!

[Pagan Wizard]

Hmmmmm.......decisions decisions........do I want a Delta Wolf or a LodeRunner??? I will only have room for one, plus the other bike I want to build (I posted a pic in another thread a while back of that bike........don't remember where though).

[Richie Rich]

Hmmmmm.......decisions decisions........do I want a Delta Wolf or a LodeRunner??? I will only have room for one, plus the other bike I want to build .Be careful, P-Dub....you're starting to sound like me, Joey and the rest of us Zombies who have too many projects and not enough time/money/space for them all....!!!
But it sure is FUN...!! :D

......Richie >>

[TheKid]

Amen to that!

[Patrike]

Wheel building and truing went well last night. As usual, I sat on the couch with a movie and worked on both wheels.

Managed to get the seat monting and axle fitting done today, but only had 2 hours to work on the trike, so not much else has been done...

Brad


Wish I could get that much done in 2hrs! Comfy looking seat.

Patrick

[SirJoey]

Me too. It took me over an hour, just to take 'em apart!

[TheKid]

Those seats are comfy, but in hot weather, you'll end up with a soaked shirt from the sweat. I used a mesh seat pad from a local auto supply on mine, and it sure helped. Joey has a boat seat on his first SWB he built, and I'm sure with the SC humidity, he had the same experience.

[AtomicZombie]

I will soon find out when I do my first test with a load of bricks up a steep hill on a hot day!

I want to tackle this crazy hill with at least 300 pounds of cargo, so the sweat factor will certainly be there.

With a frame like this, any seat could be used, but I did get a good deal on the boat seat, so I figured I try it this time.

Brad

[Patrike]

I want to tackle this crazy hill with at least 300 pounds of cargo, so the sweat factor will certainly be there.

Brad


Come on! -- Be a man, no less the 450! And don't forget to do the highspeed downhill break test.

"In tonights news - a man was crushed by 300lbs of bricks he was carrying on a tricycle!"

Patrick.

[TheKid]

I'm sure you'll find the boat seat comfy. it's the sweat factor that's the drawback, but as I said, one of those mesh things that shorter people use to get more height help big time. Actually, anything that would create some air flow would work fine. If worse comes to worse, if you take the vinyl covers off, you'll find you could use them as a pattern to make absorbent cloth covers. They aren't too difficult to put on, once they're copied. Probably a lot easier than stapling vinyl to the Overkill seat.

[gbbwolf]

Lmao im 350 whats he weigh put me on the platform and ride us up the hill

[AtomicZombie]

You know, I actually considered getting an old 4 cylendar car engine for ballast just to make a silly point, but I don't want some old greasy beast scratching up the nice new paintjob!

Brad


Come on! -- Be a man, no less the 450! And don't forget to do the highspeed downhill break test.

"In tonights news - a man was crushed by 300lbs of bricks he was carrying on a tricycle!"

Patrick.

[gbbwolf]

Hey im not an old greasy beast i had my shower today lol

[Patrike]

What happened.

I would think with the pace you where going at - it would be painted and on the road by now! ;)

Patrick

[AtomicZombie]

It would have, but the non-bike world butted in on me, and now I am working on a project for the next 2 weeks. One more day on the LodeRunner, and then it is going to be painted.

Brad

[Patrike]

It would have, but the non-bike world butted in on me, and now I am working on a project for the next 2 weeks. One more day on the LodeRunner, and then it is going to be painted.

Brad

You did this intentionally -- got me all worked up and then just left me out to slowly dry! The suspense is killing me -- make sure you put up a vid of the hill climb -- then all will be forgiven:D

Oh yah -- looking at a pic again -- are you sure you did not put your alxe too far forward? Should your load not be centered over the axle -- just looks like if you have an uneven load and it is weighted towards the back and you get off it will dump truck on you.:eek:

Patrick

[AtomicZombie]

Yes, I really want to get back into the garage and finish, but I must take care of some other things first. It hurts!

The tradeoff between wheelbase and load position will be explained in the plans. You are correct, in my version, a 400 pound load would need to be placed slightly ahead of the axle to be safe.

Brad

[TheKid]

Two words. Wheelie bars.:D

[AtomicZombie]

And perhaps a parachute as well! I am fast on my machines.

Brad


Two words. Wheelie bars.:D