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View Full Version : Bought plans: Some questions



dutchlincoln
12-27-2011, 05:11 PM
Hello,
I bought the plans for the Warrior trike, and printed them.
Now, i'm converting all dimentions to metric values as it's easyer for me when building.
Now, i have some (beginner?) questions, and there will probably be more soon...

First of all, i find it a pitty that there are no angles to cut given, as i can cut my steel very precise at work: we have a nice metal saw with a degree scale on it....

Second: At the main tube frame (i'll try to explain, please comment when not clear..) the lower horizontal tube runs further as where the tube that goes onto it (seat back tube) is welded at.
Isn't it neater to have these tubes cut in the correct angle, and weld them together, instead of welding one to another, and capping the one that's "sticking out" due being too long? Or will this compromise strength?
Last for now: actually the same thing with the rear bridge: Wouldn't it be neater to calculate the angles of the "U" that holds the wheel, and angle-cut the 3 tubes instead of capping them?

Thanks!

ps.
i intend to make the trike from stainless steel, as it is widely available at work. Any "do's" and/or "dont' s" for this, besides a little extra weight?

Mr Frugle
12-27-2011, 05:52 PM
Hi Dutch ill see if i can help. the plans are written to be used with very basic tools the average person has on hand and most of the project get built from the ground up so each step works off the next one. With the few i built there alway seams to be a little tweeking and i use a 10 inch chop saw to make my cuts, besides you will be surprised how good you get with a grinder after you build a trike. I dont see why you couldnt weld the joint at the seat back tube and U your way but remember brads allready figured out the akerman steering so if you add or subtract from the length or heigth of the frame more than a little bit, it could mess up the way the trike handles. dont know much about stainless steel but you want to keep the trike as light as you can. ps I built the viking following brads plans and it works great i did make a few minor changes but nothing that changed the way the bike handles. hope this helped some good luck with your build

darnthedog
12-28-2011, 08:38 AM
Hi Dutchlincoln
Please read the plans all the way through a couple times. The point you want to join at a proper angle is also a mount point for a pulley for your drive chain. Keeps the chain from hitting the bottom of the seat. The plans are also designed to be simple without having to calculate complex angles as most of us do not have access to machine shops for precise angles. We are hackers of a sort. Working from our garages or back yards in some cases. The other thing is there are many possible angles depending on what parts you use. Brad has idenifity critical heights and angle to maintain good steering ability and reliable service. Someone might use 16 inch wheel instead of 20 for the front. Someone might use a 36" rear wheel instead of a 26 inch wheel. Brad gives us a general outline how to make the trike. It is up to us to make it to our components.
Good luck in building and make sure you feed us pictures. You can set up a free piccas account and link like I did. Or you can just post them.
The other great thing is like computers, or anything else you build from scratch you can do it anyway you want to.
I don't know the welding requirements for Stainless Steel. But most folk here are not amature welders and the cost of materials and the abiltiy to weld it properly is the biggest issue. If you know how to weld Stainless and have the equipment that will make a very pretty bike without paint even. Some have used aluminum and some even fiberglass and Carbon fiber I think I have seen suggested. It is your bike go with what make you happy.

David_s
12-28-2011, 10:42 AM
Hello,
Second: At the main tube frame (i'll try to explain, please comment when not clear..) the lower horizontal tube runs further as where the tube that goes onto it (seat back tube) is welded at.
Isn't it neater to have these tubes cut in the correct angle, and weld them together, instead of welding one to another, and capping the one that's "sticking out" due being too long? Or will this compromise strength?

Since this joint is one of the most important structural joints in the frame, ensure that all holes are filled and that the joint is completely welded all the way around. If you are over 200 pounds, or donít fully trust your welds yet, you can add a few triangular gussets along the sides of the frame just to strengthen the joint

Radical Brad
12-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Greets!

Yes, you could cut the angles as you described if you have the tools and skills to do so. The front angles were not given because you need to build up the front wheel components first and then fit the frame. Most builders here (including myself) own only an angle grinder and a basic welder, so specifying a complex compound angle would just become more frustrating than cutting slightly larger to work backwards. In the past, I tired the "blueprint" method since I actually model my plans in 3DStudio after the build, but it was an utter and total disaster for most people.

Those critical front boom angles are dependent on your head tube, hubs, and even tire height.

Brad

dutchlincoln
12-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Okay, thanks for all the reply's, and the warm welcome guy's.
I will collect parts first, and start building when i have most of them.
When i'm starting with the build, i'll post some pics. It's what i also like in a forum: Pics! :)

I saw some nice 20" wheels some days ago. They are 144 spoke (!), very nice, but thay can't be fitted with disc-brakes according to the seller. Anyone who can tell me how to overcome this, or where to get wheels alike these that can hold disk brakes?
Link, see: http://fietsen-brommers.marktplaats.nl/fietsonderdelen/503966732-wielset-20-inch-freestyle-144-spaaks-zwart.html

I also liked this (the right one, not the left) wheel for the rear: http://fietsen-brommers.marktplaats.nl/fietsonderdelen/504558159-campagnolo-khamsin-wielset-model-2012-superaanbieding.html?return=eJwFwVsKgCAQAMC7eACtj% 2FpYiY4SGxqKjxZ3EyS6ezMIM7wRJsuwLqDKsEGEwJjuW7rJV1 2wJaGMKKxrNg%2F7hq7EasrQFGiXQX47o%2BPjws7Kfj%2B4VB 4M&df=1
They are "Campagnolo Khamsin" wheels... Anyone??

David_s
12-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Okay, thanks for all the reply's, and the warm welcome guy's.
I saw some nice 20" wheels some days ago. They are 144 spoke (!), very nice, but thay can't be fitted with disc-brakes according to the seller. Anyone who can tell me how to overcome this, or where to get wheels alike these that can hold disk brakes?
You could run a piece from the spot where the wheel mounts out to the edge of the rim then attach a standard brake there. Cost of disk brakes is one of the things holding me back with building a tadpole.

dutchlincoln
01-04-2012, 06:39 PM
Hi, thanks for the reply, but i really want to have it disk brakes.

Another question though.
I finished the rear wheel bridge, and it's completely symmetrical.
When i take a close look at wheels however, you have the disk brake on one (short) side, and the bracket on the other (wide) side.
I assume the wheel is spoked to be in the heart of the rim though, thus having the wheel more to one side then to another?
So, when in a bike, i assume the rear bridge isn't symmetrical?
So, in my bridge, the wheel will be more to one side then to another?
It seems unlogical to me, but this is what i see on pictures?
(still looking for wheels, so i don't have them yet.

Thanks!!

John Lewis
01-05-2012, 04:37 AM
The rear wheel is spoked in such a way as to allow for the variation. When the wheel is in the fork it should be centred. Notice that the spokes on the sprocket side are shorter than the ones on the other side to allow for this.
John

socialtalker
01-05-2012, 11:30 AM
on my thread "rear hub for meridian", in reply az member, savarin posted his thread on how he made his Disk brake adapters

http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php?3917-Disk-brake-adapters&highlight=

he will likely respond when he sees this thread.


Okay, thanks for all the reply's, and the warm welcome guy's.
I will collect parts first, and start building when i have most of them.
When i'm starting with the build, i'll post some pics. It's what i also like in a forum: Pics! :)

I saw some nice 20" wheels some days ago. They are 144 spoke (!), very nice, but thay can't be fitted with disc-brakes according to the seller. Anyone who can tell me how to overcome this, or where to get wheels alike these that can hold disk brakes?
Link, see: http://fietsen-brommers.marktplaats.nl/fietsonderdelen/503966732-wielset-20-inch-freestyle-144-spaaks-zwart.html

I also liked this (the right one, not the left) wheel for the rear: http://fietsen-brommers.marktplaats.nl/fietsonderdelen/504558159-campagnolo-khamsin-wielset-model-2012-superaanbieding.html?return=eJwFwVsKgCAQAMC7eACtj% 2FpYiY4SGxqKjxZ3EyS6ezMIM7wRJsuwLqDKsEGEwJjuW7rJV1 2wJaGMKKxrNg%2F7hq7EasrQFGiXQX47o%2BPjws7Kfj%2B4VB 4M&df=1
They are "Campagnolo Khamsin" wheels... Anyone??

dutchlincoln
01-05-2012, 04:27 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I find it a very inventive solution, but i don't think it's a good idea to have the brakes this way....
The hub is only clamped...
When, due whatever reason, the rings may be loose, all braking force comes at a 90 degree angle on the spokes, in which they are as strong as a cookie...
Spokes are strong in pulling power, which is why you have to connect it to the hub itself... Rigid...

DIY_GUY
01-13-2012, 12:11 PM
You could run a piece from the spot where the wheel mounts out to the edge of the rim then attach a standard brake there. Cost of disk brakes is one of the things holding me back with building a tadpole.
Disc brakes are an option as you stated. I used the caliper and arm assembly like the Street-Fox plans show on my first Warrior. Build the tadpole!! LOL...

savarin
01-13-2012, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I find it a very inventive solution, but i don't think it's a good idea to have the brakes this way....
The hub is only clamped...
When, due whatever reason, the rings may be loose, all braking force comes at a 90 degree angle on the spokes, in which they are as strong as a cookie...
Spokes are strong in pulling power, which is why you have to connect it to the hub itself... Rigid...

I've made two types of disk brake adapters.
One where they are clamped to the spokes right at the hub and the other where I drilled and tapped the hub flange.
Both types are still holding up and braking my considerable bulk to a standstill.
Both types have never worked loose or so far strained or broken the spokes and they have many miles on them.

DIY_GUY
01-14-2012, 07:59 AM
savarin I hunted to see your adapter when it was commented on in here somewhere and I gotta tell you after seeing that I can say I witnessed precision meeting up with genius! Exceptional job!!!!

savarin
01-14-2012, 08:35 AM
On welding thin stainless.
Make sure the welder knows what he is doing as the heat affected zone can weaken considerably depending upon the composition of the filler rods.
I assume your using tig?

dutchlincoln
01-15-2012, 04:08 AM
Hi,
Yes, i'm using TIG indeed.
I'm using 316 filler rods.
The structure of the metal can be regained when etching the welds with sulphuric acid.
The thickness of the walls of the square pipe i use, is 2 mm.
Should be strong enough :)

we'll see.

Currently, i'm stranded with the project due lack on wheels.
I only have the rear bridge welded yet.

savarin
01-15-2012, 04:29 AM
Hi,
Yes, i'm using TIG indeed.
I'm using 316 filler rods.
The structure of the metal can be regained when etching the welds with sulphuric acid.
The thickness of the walls of the square pipe i use, is 2 mm.
Should be strong enough :)



I think you are correct.
2mm, bit heavy isnt it?
will look fantastic if all the welds are polished.

dutchlincoln
01-16-2012, 11:01 AM
That's what i think also.
Only thing is: i don't like polishing... :(
I may do it once, and then keep it up..

Heavy it will be, but on the other hand, if i loose some pounds (and i have enough of them :) ) i'm even very soon, so i guess it won't matter that much..