A new twist. :)

[jaythedogg]

Maybe it has been thought up before but here is my idea:

I want to build the OverKill & do an Electric Moped type setup, kinda like this pic, forgive the crude illustration:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/jaythedogg/OKMoped.jpg

It will be a bit bulkier, but I can modify the frame design a bit to make room for the necessary components.

I thought it to be a good idea, as then I would have a chopper, moped & be green eco friendly. :)

Aside from that, my college is a ways away, so it will make the trip a little less tiresome & alot more cost effective than my '02 Kia Sedona. :)

What do you guys think?

[AtomicZombie]

Everything will work except for the freehub drive sprocket. No BMX freehub will take that type of torque. 1/2 HP maybe, but not 2 HP.

Brad

[jaythedogg]

Everything will work except for the freehub drive sprocket. No BMX freehub will take that type of torque. 1/2 HP maybe, but not 2 HP.

Brad

Wouldn't the torque converter (aka Power Band) compensate for that?

I am unsure, as I haven't ever had to wind a drive sprocket up that hard before. :P

With a torque converter, & pedal assist for starting & whatnot, would a 1/2 hp do the job?

Wait, what am I thinking? I am going to use a centrifugal clutch on the motor shaft itself, I don't need a freehub drive sprocket, I can use a solid mounted, it would be the same as having a freehub, but on the opposite end. :)

Am I right?

[AtomicZombie]

Yes, with a motor shaft clutch, you can drop on a #40 chain and sprocket and light that rear wheel up with as much power as you want. Go with two sets of 48 spokes on each side of the wheel to make it stronger since you will be seeing a lot more speed and torque. You may even consider hacking out your own hub flanges and using a 1/2 inch rear wheel shaft. This will allow easy sprocket mounting, and a disc brake as well.

With a direct drive from the clutch, you will need about a 10:1 reduction, so 12 teeth clutch, and about 100-120 teeth rear wheel.


Brad

[jaythedogg]

Yes, with a motor shaft clutch, you can drop on a #40 chain and sprocket and light that rear wheel up with as much power as you want. Go with two sets of 48 spokes on each side of the wheel to make it stronger since you will be seeing a lot more speed and torque. You may even consider hacking out your own hub flanges and using a 1/2 inch rear wheel shaft. This will allow easy sprocket mounting, and a disc brake as well.

With a direct drive from the clutch, you will need about a 10:1 reduction, so 12 teeth clutch, and about 100-120 teeth rear wheel.


Brad

Nice! Now, when I was a kid, my Grandad had a ten speed & a 3 speed. They both had small electric motors on the front wheel, that when switched on, turned a small grinding wheel on the tread, causing it to speed up. These motors were tiny. They were also only powered with a 6v lawn mower starter battery.

You could go around town all day on this battery at full charge. Now, if I get a 2hp motor, I am assuming a single 12v deep cycle battery wouldn't be enough to tool around town for very long. Are there any certain batteries you can recommend for this project?

-or- Do you think the 12v deep cycle car battery would be enough? I mean, the motors on these bikes couldn't have been more than 1/4hp, so at 2hp I don't know if a single 12v would be enough & would a deep cycle battery be too much load for a high torque electric motor to handle?

Wow, babble city. :P

Edit: So for the disc brake mounting, would I just make the shaft longer & put the disc between the sprocket & wheel, with spacing between them all?

No real matter, I have yet to order my plans, money is still a bit tight. I am junking right now, so as to stockpile parts for when I get the cash to grab my welder/grinder/etc. After I order my plans.

I have lots of electric motors lying around, but I think I am going to actually get a go-kart electric motor (2hp) for durability.

[AtomicZombie]

A 1-2 HP DC motor will require 24-48 volts. At 12 volts, getting 1HP (750 watts) would be a massive heating problem.

You will also need a controller, which is about the same cost as the motor.

This is the perfect motor for 1-2 HP use...

http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/1293

I used that on the Sparky minibike to get massive takeoff and city traffic speed.

And a matching controller...

http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/413

Brad

[jaythedogg]

Wow, that's a price lol! Thanks. :)

[AtomicZombie]

Yep, the good stuff is certainly not budget! I tried those el-cheapo tin can motors and ebay controllers but would rather just pedal for what they are worth.

The Ebay OEM 1000 watt scooter motor is barely enough to push a bike up all but the smallest of hills. In comparison, my 400 watt hubmotor will rocket right up just about any hill.

No deals on electric parts - that's what I have found so far.

Brad

[jaythedogg]

I might just do a front wheel drive type OverKill with a Hub Motor. :)

It's an idea, instead of using a 20" front wheel, use a car Donut, turned into spoked wheel. Think this would give me any guff?

[AtomicZombie]

SOund like a job for the Crystalyte Brute hubmotor. That puppy will give you some serious honk! Of course, the kit is over $1000 as well.

Brad

[jaythedogg]

SOund like a job for the Crystalyte Brute hubmotor. That puppy will give you some serious honk! Of course, the kit is over $1000 as well.

Brad


That's a monster & a monster price! I am looking at the kit parts separately & yea, it looks like just buying the kit would be more economical.

Aside from that, doing a petrol Overkill is tempting, as I can put a 16HP horizontal shaft Engine, a power band & cent clutch rated for 16hp & the necessary fixings on it + estimated building supplies, for less than a grand.

Then I would have to do signals, headlight(s), tail lights, & a keyed ignition switch...

However, I am trying to be more green here.

Gotta admit though, seeing a homebuilt Overkill running on a small engine, seemingly automatic, down the street would be pretty trick. :P

I saw a home built light weight "dune buggy" cruising down the road at about 45 MPH & all it had was a 10HP engine, powerband & cent clutch.

Imagine the Overkill with that kind of setup on 16hp. :P

I can't bring myself to do that though, I mean, imagine, if nothing else, what would you guys think of me? :P

[AtomicZombie]

With a motor that size powering a fat car tire spinning around a bicycle hub with minimal breaks....

well, I would think you might not be back to make a ride report!

With that kind of juice, you need motorcycle parts and brakes.

Brad

[SirJoey]

SOund like a job for the Crystalyte Brute hubmotor. That puppy will give you some serious honk! Of course, the kit is over $1000 as well.

I priced that kit with their new, high dollar battery, including shipping, and it came to a whopping $2400!

Still, I can't buy much of a truck for that, & my van is almost undriveable now, needing approximately $1,000 worth of work (already got the estimate), & even if I have it repaired, all I'd have is an old worn out '93 model that only gets about 13 mpg, so an electric KC is looking more attractive all the time.

Then, hopefully, I'd be able to eventually add solar panels to it, to be TOTALLY green, so....

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[AtomicZombie]

I agree!

$2500, will barely get you a decent used motorcycle or car. Drop the Phoenix Brute on a decent home built recumbent frame, and you have a vehicle that will keep pace with city traffic, run on true green power, and promote a healthy lifestyle should you choose to add pedals.

Combine that with the fact that you get to say you built it yourself, and the price really is not that bad. I know a few people who have more than $2500 invested in their state of the art upright cycles, but you won't see them completing a 50KM ride in a hour while towing a trailer full of groceries! Nor will you see them hit the top of a long steep hill at traffic speed while holding a coffee in one hand.

I have a project planned for this year that will be half motorcycle, half LWB recumbent, and will probably use the Phoenix Brute. I was thinking about using the Scott 1HP motor and controller (Sparky Minibike), but why bother when you need all of that gear reduction. The Phoenix 1000 watt hubmotor is a perfect choice for a street ready machine.

The biggest challenge will be suspension, as a vehicle of this weight and speed will need it on both wheels. None of the low budget MTB suspension stuff will be strong enough, and a good downhill MTB front shock starts at around $3000!!!

I will probably make my own suspension triple tree using sleeve bearings and a pair of MTB rear shocks.

Brad

[jaythedogg]

The good thing about having a fat drag slick for a rear tire would be a little more cushion for my "no rear shocks" system. :P

However, I will definitely need a bigger hub/disc brakes/etc. Cuz 16hp is nasty strong & I would hate to break something at 50mph.

I think I would need 16hp anyway, due to the heavier built frame & whatnot, to support the engine/etc.

[AtomicZombie]

Here is my 3.5 cents worth...

If you are planning a motor of more than 1HP, or speeds over 20 MPH....

1) Use heavier than 16 gage tubing.
2) Do not use bicycle rims, spokes, hubs, or axles.
3) Use motorcycle disc brakes, not bicycle discs.

Basically, start with a motorcycle!

Brad

[jaythedogg]

Here is my 3.5 cents worth...

If you are planning a motor of more than 1HP, or speeds over 20 MPH....

1) Use heavier than 16 gage tubing.
2) Do not use bicycle rims, spokes, hubs, or axles.
3) Use motorcycle disc brakes, not bicycle discs.

Basically, start with a motorcycle!

Brad

I think I will... Eventually, but in the meantime, I will start out with a pedal Overkill, as it is nice as it sits, & I need to lose weight anyway. :P

The engine & whatnot are nice to dream about, but I don't have near enough experience to build anything that I would trust riding.

The hubmotor though, well, that is a definite possibility.

Edit: By the way, completely off topic, if anyone is wondering... That is not exactly how I look in life, it is contorted & changed by using Adobe After Effects. For more explanation, Follow this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ7gfswHtAM

[SirJoey]

That is not exactly how I look in life...

Awww Jay, I'm SO disappointed...
This IS however, EXACTLY how I look:

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1064/fangske6.jpg

Okay, maybe not EXACTLY.
I'm a little older & grayer now...

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[jaythedogg]

Awww Jay, I'm SO disappointed...
This IS however, EXACTLY how I look:

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1064/fangske6.jpg

Okay, maybe not EXACTLY.
I'm a little older & grayer now...

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Stick on teeth or a really well done photoshop?

Wow dude, you can stretch your lips! Didn't that hurt? >.<

Don't feel bad on the gray thing, I am 28 & have tons of gray/white in my goatee.

:(

[trikeman]

Here is my 3.5 cents worth...

If you are planning a motor of more than 1HP, or speeds over 20 MPH....

1) Use heavier than 16 gage tubing.
2) Do not use bicycle rims, spokes, hubs, or axles.
3) Use motorcycle disc brakes, not bicycle discs.

Basically, start with a motorcycle!

Brad

That is the same conclusion I have reached when reading the motoredbikes.com forum, for ideas on adding a motor to a bicycle. Those guys keep adding weight and power and then are in a quandary as to how to stop it and keep the wheels and frame from falling apart. The obvious solution is to just start with a lightweight motorcycle frame (sans motor) and get the more beefy parts you need there. I think the Whizzer NE5 is about as close as you can come to the boundary between motorcycle and bicycle on a fully street-legal machine, without crossing over, and even it has marginal brakes for the speeds it can attain. Cool bike, though (for a petrol machine).

http://www.whizzermotorbike.com/NE5Brochure.htm

[SirJoey]

Stick on teeth or a really well done photoshop?
Wow dude, you can stretch your lips! Didn't that hurt? >.<
Don't feel bad on the gray thing, I am 28 & have tons of gray/white in my goatee.

Actually, the teeth are a POORLY done PhotoShop job, but thanx. Got carried away on the tooth length. One of my very first attempts from about 10 years ago.

The mouth stretch, well, that's real. I used to do that, just to freak out my wife. (Notice I'm no longer married, too!) Hey, I'm a big-mouth, what can I say? :o

Got my first gray hair at 21, around the time that pic was taken.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[Richie Rich]

The mouth stretch, well, that's real. I used to do that, just to freak out my wife. (Notice I'm no longer married, too!)If that was your intention, I'd say your plan worked just fine...!! :eek:

...PW Richie >>
.

[jaythedogg]

Actually, the teeth are a POORLY done PhotoShop job, but thanx. Got carried away on the tooth length. One of my very first attempts from about 10 years ago.

The mouth stretch, well, that's real. I used to do that, just to freak out my wife. (Notice I'm no longer married, too!) Hey, I'm a big-mouth, what can I say? :o

Got my first gray hair at 21, around the time that pic was taken.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

So then you're 31-ish?

I assume that from the info given. Unless the pic was taken when you were 21 & you PSd it years later.

I will get your age out of you yet! =P

[SirJoey]

So then you're 31-ish?
I assume that from the info given. Unless the pic was taken when you were 21 & you PSd it years later.
I will get your age out of you yet! =P

31-ish? Don't I wish-ish! When that pic was taken, PhotoShop didn't exist. Neither did the internet, or even PCs!
Your second guess is right, it was a real old pic when I PSd it.
As of last month, I'm "officially" a senior citizen, at 55.
You might be suprised at how many of us old fossils there are in here. :)

In fact, I believe Richie Rich's first home-built had stone wheels!
Naturally, he doesn't have any pics of it, cuz he wore it out long before cameras were invented! ;)

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[AtomicZombie]

Can I call myself a fossil as well? Hell, I learned to hack on a 1978 P.e.t. 4016, listened to Black Sabbath (still do), and grew up riding a single speed bike in the days when helmets were reserved for Evil kinevil.

Brad the grey.

[jaythedogg]

Well, this all makes sense, if we need proof we can just call the Smithsonian, they found stone wheels dating back to that era. Maybe they have one with lightning welded forks still attached. :P

Wow, imagine that. It would have taken EASILY a week per piece to wait for those welds. Wait, what about... eh, he wouldn't have it...

I won't even ask.

[SirJoey]

Can I call myself a fossil as well? Hell, I learned to hack on a 1978 P.e.t. 4016, listened to Black Sabbath (still do), and gre up riding a single speed bike in the days when helmets were reserved for Evil kinevil.
Brad the grey.

Don't know if we could quite categorize you as a fossil just yet, AZ, but you are proving that you have a few miles on you. We'd prolly have to place you in the "Junior Senior" category for now.

At least you have good taste in tunes. What about some of the stuff your own country has produced? Like maybe the best thing musically to ever come out of Canada (not counting the Rush juggernaut), Coney Hatch? Some of my all-time favorite stuff, I have all 3 CDs & even Carl Dixon's first 2 solo albums.

It still amazes me that they never broke big here. Most folks here have never even heard of 'em, & IMHO, they were incredible! Let me guess... you prolly don't care for 'em, huh?

SirJoey the white.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[Richie Rich]

In fact, I believe Richie Rich's first home-built had stone wheels!
Naturally, he doesn't have any pics of it, cuz he wore it out long before cameras were invented! ;)Fortunately, the guy in the next cave, Fred Flintstone, had invented some things he called 'toolz', so my next bike was made from those tall things with fruit and berries at the top.....

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1272/1263983206_f7310df632_o.jpg

.....Richie the Fossil...
.

[Sparky]

the creativity of some people scares me.

[SirJoey]

Fortunately, the guy in the next cave, Fred Flintstone, had invented some things he called 'toolz', so my next bike was made from those tall things with fruit and berries at the top.....
.....Richie the Fossil

Oh sure Richie, you'd LIKE us to believe it looked like that, wouldn't you?
Recently uncovered archeological evidence however, would seem to suggest otherwise...

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/701/flintstonechopperzq9.jpg

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[Richie Rich]

Joey....That's an early lithograph of the "Proof of Concept" model.
My final version came out around 650 B.C.

.....Richard the Ruffian....

[John Lewis]

Then, hopefully, I'd be able to eventually add solar panels to it, to be TOTALLY green, so....

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

Not quite in the same class we're only allowed 200w but look at this.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/09/solar-trikey-ma.html#more (http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/09/solar-trikey-ma.html#more)

John Lewis

[greenevegiebeast]

Is it just me or do the auseys have all the fun.

[darnthedog]

Brad
You mention heavy Suspension and I saw this guy on youtube with a homebuilt suspension. He built it as an article for Autospeed. He use motorcycle parts.
www.autospeed.com/cms/search/index.html?keywords=Human+powered&x=16&y=8 (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/search/index.html?keywords=Human+powered&x=16&y=8)

You could use the lessons learned from him to give you suspension hints. If the link does not work, Go to Autospeed.com. Then type human powered.
By the way loved the book (Bikes,Scooters, and Chooper projects) and looking forward to building my first bike.

[AtomicZombie]

Thanks!

Yep, I remember that site - lots of good info there.

Brad