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edspedalcars
05-20-2013, 04:03 PM
Here's a 'Whatever it's worth'

The pro's already know this , but for the rest of us.

You will notice the two sides of the magnet are not even.

I have 4, 6 1/4" from Harbor Freight. Two of them, have the two sides uneven.

The other magnet is hardly noticeable with the naked eye. This one though is really obvious.

I never rely on the magnets being square, but didn't catch that the sides weren't even.

I only just discovered this, when my two parts wouldn't set up straight.

I guess I haven't used this magnet to accurately set anything up.

http://s2.postimg.org/vrl4a5ysp/magnet_error_006.jpg

Sorry about the blurry picture.

Enjoy, Ed

edspedalcars
05-20-2013, 06:52 PM
Some more gee whizz info


Just finished putting a square to the rest of my magnets.

Using my metal welding table, I placed a square on my magnets in every position thinkable.

Not one of my magnets is suitable for any kind accurate holding, by as much as 3/16" on one.

With some time spent on the grinder, maybe they will come close to true.

Sure a waste of time.

I will look into better ones, for sure.

Ed

darnthedog
05-20-2013, 07:37 PM
I only use the magnets to insure both sides have good ground point so my wire penetrates both pieces at same time till I got a good tack. I use c- clamps and jigs to hold the work in position. Just my take on it. And it was pointed out in my welding class as well.

edspedalcars
05-20-2013, 08:31 PM
I only use the magnets to insure both sides have good ground point so my wire penetrates both pieces at same time till I got a good tack. I use c- clamps and jigs to hold the work in position. Just my take on it. And it was pointed out in my welding class as well.

Thx DTD

I also use various clamps when I'm welding. I was just surprised that the magnets were uneven.

A lot pf people use these magnets, and may assume, they are accurate.

Ed

Ticktock
05-20-2013, 08:48 PM
If all that effort does not produce a better magnet for welding---it might still make a good compass for when you get lost!
Even if the magnets were "square" , the force of heat distorsion would just push them away --so they are really used as an extra (steady) hand to hold until tacked.
Never seen one as bad as that one , Ed. Should be the museum !
Steve G

trikedoc
05-20-2013, 09:12 PM
If all that effort does not produce a better magnet for welding---it might still make a good compass for when you get lost!
Even if the magnets were "square" , the force of heat distorsion would just push them away --so they are really used as an extra (steady) hand to hold until tacked.
Never seen one as bad as that one , Ed. Should be the museum !
Steve G

Thats because you guys in China keep the good ones and sell the duds to Harbor Fright LOL
Al

edspedalcars
05-20-2013, 09:45 PM
If all that effort does not produce a better magnet for welding---it might still make a good compass for when you get lost!
Even if the magnets were "square" , the force of heat distorsion would just push them away --so they are really used as an extra (steady) hand to hold until tacked.
Never seen one as bad as that one , Ed. Should be the museum !
Steve G

If not a compass, a good boat anchor, L.A.L !!!

Didn't know about the heat distorsion thing.

Thanks, Ed

edspedalcars
05-20-2013, 10:55 PM
I only use the magnets to insure both sides have good ground point so my wire penetrates both pieces at same time till I got a good tack. I use c- clamps and jigs to hold the work in position. Just my take on it. And it was pointed out in my welding class as well.

Hey! DTD

I had idea's about taking a welding class.

If you don't mind, what was your class like.

Was it at a local college or post secondary school?

Not really wanting to set through a lot of theory, but maybe it's needed.

Your input will be appreciated.

Thanks, Ed

darnthedog
05-21-2013, 02:06 AM
Hey! DTD

I had idea's about taking a welding class.

If you don't mind, what was your class like.

Was it at a local college or post secondary school?

Not really wanting to set through a lot of theory, but maybe it's needed.

Your input will be appreciated.

Thanks, Ed
To tell you the honest truth- I dropped out after a few weeks-
There was a hour of safety and theory then a couple hours of practise in a classroom with almost triple the advised level. It was way over crowded and the instructor favored a female student over others. As we had to take turn burning a stick to run a bead I had issues getting a strike and maintaining a bead. Due to the lack of instructor help- I quite. At the time I was quite ticked off.

Later a neighbor was selling off stuff he got from an auction of storage room. He happen to have a Lincoln flux core 110v welder a desalt grinder cheap. Another neighbor took the time to show me how to position and set the welder up. The rest I picked up off YouTube and here.

If the class had not been over crowded I would have stuck with it. But with 14 stations and 3 people per booth I was never given enough to to pick up hardly anything other than theory and safety. This was a community college. Now my dad who took the same course earlier had barely enough folks to hold the class. So my best advice is if the class is over booked then wait for a different class or you maybe disappointed as well.

PeterT
05-21-2013, 06:28 AM
I once found 12 out of 15 welders magnets, in Bunnings, (Aussie equivalent of Home Depot) that were worse than that one.

I now only use magnets as extra hands till I can get the clamps in place, & then I use a proper square to get the correct angles

PeterT

edspedalcars
05-21-2013, 10:00 AM
Thanks DTD

I read an article about our local college welding classes. They said about the same as you.

To many students, to little stations, to Iittle time, or instruction.

I also, have learned everything I know about welding, which is still not as much as I'd like, from the internet

and here on AZ.

Thanks for sharing you experience, I appreciate it.

Ed

darnthedog
05-21-2013, 10:38 AM
Thanks DTD

I read an article about our local college welding classes. They said about the same as you.

To many students, to little stations, to Iittle time, or instruction.

I also, have learned everything I know about welding, which is still not as much as I'd like, from the internet

and here on AZ.

Thanks for sharing you experience, I appreciate it.

Ed
If you get the book- "New Lessons in Arc Welding" by Lincoln Electric and read through the chapters you will have half the safety an theory information done. Getting the experience can be performed at home with lots of practice. You can't get any better home schooling then that. If you really want the lessons- then talk to the instructors at a couple of the colleges and maybe check out the local high school summer or night schools. Find one that is not over crowded. Most the students are attempting to get certified in order to work in the industry. Not hobbiest like us. Otherwise just practise laying bead on top of each other and jointing parts at every angle. The instructor attempted to test out a few students- his test was to have the students take flat plate to tack up into a cube. Then he would clamp the cube in a mount and the student would have to weld up each side to make it air tight without repositioning it. Once welded the instructor would add a port and leak check around the threads and then pressurize the cube for a 1 hour leak down tests. If that passed the student would certify out of the class. Had the class not been over crowded I wound have probably enjoyed it. But being limited to attempting to lay beads for 10 minutes and having to switch off with no instruction. It is not the way to learn. You'll learn a lot if you can find a class. But is not essential if you can strike an arc and get decent penetration now. As you are probably not looking to work in the field for commercial reasons.

Ticktock
05-21-2013, 11:02 AM
Hey Trikedoc--don't tell everyone--If that becomes general knowledge we will have to send you the good ones, and we keep all the rejects---no profit in that idea!
Steve G.
said in fun, but the real story is a bit different-
'Goes like this--and its only an example, so don't quote my figures. HF wants a tap and die set---they ask a US company to make a tap and die set for $10. They say it can't be done.
So HF ask a Chinese company---they make the set for $10, make a profit and laugh all the way to the bank. The $10 set is just not very good!
But someone else asks the same Chinese company to make a good set for $100 and you get a very good tap and die set! The real problem is not with China--its the companies that make stupid demands so they can sell cheapXXXXX to you guys. You get what you pay for!
Al ltools I buy here are first class---except hack saw blades! The cheapies must be HF rejects! Imported blades cost a fortune.
Steve G

trikedoc
05-21-2013, 12:07 PM
Hey Trikedoc--don't tell everyone--If that becomes general knowledge we will have to send you the good ones, and we keep all the rejects---no profit in that idea!
Steve G.
said in fun, but the real story is a bit different-
'Goes like this--and its only an example, so don't quote my figures. HF wants a tap and die set---they ask a US company to make a tap and die set for $10. They say it can't be done.
So HF ask a Chinese company---they make the set for $10, make a profit and laugh all the way to the bank. The $10 set is just not very good!
But someone else asks the same Chinese company to make a good set for $100 and you get a very good tap and die set! The real problem is not with China--its the companies that make stupid demands so they can sell cheapXXXXX to you guys. You get what you pay for!
Al ltools I buy here are first class---except hack saw blades! The cheapies must be HF rejects! Imported blades cost a fortune.
Steve G

Steve, China is different. years ago it was Japan then Taiwan. But Know Everything is made in China. yes Harbor Fright sells cheap tools of poor quality. We know that when we walk in the door. They sell a large blue and chrome air dryer to take moisture out of your air compressor air. Payed under $20. Get a catalog from a top line shop tool supplier. Same exact unit $83. My friend needed to replace the 5 hp gas motor on his leaf vac. $99. at Harbor Fright(couldn't use fitment problems) At Tractor Supply Kohler same motor only all black paint $288. Once a US company sends a product design to China they are toast. the Chinese knockoff will be here on the shelf before the original ships. GM spent $800,000 to design a car for the Chinese market in a joint venture. The day they cut the ribbon at the production line. The same car was rolling off the line at an all Chinese factory 10 miles away. China is stealing us into a third world country status. All these large multi national company see is the potential sale to 3 billion Chinese.

edspedalcars
05-21-2013, 08:01 PM
Interesting how threads go!!!

In my early days as a AZ krew member, one of you said to me that,
I could expect these threads to veer off course, at times, and end up
who knows where, which is so much the fun.

In just a few short replies, we've gone from just a courtesy comment, on inaccurate magnets:

to welding clamping suggestions,
to alternative uses for these magnates,
to the physics of heat and it's affect on distortion,
to discovering a new museum quality artifact,
to the futility of taking a welding class,
to the joy of having a helpful neighbor,

and finally,

to a brewing, international incident, involving manufacturing and commerce.

Thanks to all contributors

Enjoy, Ed

edspedalcars
07-16-2016, 12:34 PM
Just a ...'REMINDER'

Noticing the recent posts involving building of 'BIG' wheels,
and saw the use of those red magnets, that so many of us have.

As you can see in my photo, not all magnets are created equal.

If you haven't already, I suggest anyone having or contemplating, buying these magnets,
take a minute or two, and check your magnets, to ensure they are square,
especially if you intend to use them to 'square up' your work.

I now, 'look twice, buy once', to make sure they are manufactured properly.

Again, just a friendly reminder.



Here's a 'Whatever it's worth'

The pro's already know this , but for the rest of us.

You will notice the two sides of the magnet are not even.

I have 4, 6 1/4" from Harbor Freight. Two of them, have the two sides uneven.

The other magnet is hardly noticeable with the naked eye. This one though is really obvious.

I never rely on the magnets being square, but didn't catch that the sides weren't even.

I only just discovered this, when my two parts wouldn't set up straight.

I guess I haven't used this magnet to accurately set anything up.

http://s2.postimg.org/vrl4a5ysp/magnet_error_006.jpg

Sorry about the blurry picture.

Enjoy, Ed