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View Full Version : Hub Washers (Condensed from old forum)


TheKid
02-07-2008, 04:37 PM
I condensed 3 pages of this important subject. Hopefully, I left nothing important out:
Hub Washer Sources: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an970flatwashers.php
http://www.mcmaster.com/

Cadmium Warning: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/cadmium/

Just bought some 2.5" washers from Brofasco. Careful attention to making a template and using a hole punch is essential. Also a great tool to have is a center drill. These allow you to make accurate starter holes. By using a center drill first, the drill bit will not run away on you as can happen even with using a hole punch. Center drill can be bought for a few dollars at any supplier handling machine tools and is worth its weight in gold.

Here is a link to a pair of washers I used to make hubs:
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/123/10264406/2006/10/13/Spoke_Washers2.jpg

It is important to note that even though these washers have a 5/8" hole, it will most likely be a little larger than a 5/8" rod by about a 32nd. Before welding, add a shim to take up the space so the washer sits as close to center as possible. I discovered that if you cut up an aluminum pop can, it is the perfect material for a shim and nicely centers the hub onto the shaft. I'm placing a piece of angle iron clamped into my vise. Since the angle iron is cut straight at the end, butting the washers with axle up to the end ensures when you weld that the washer will be in perfect alighment. Of course I will make a tack weld and check before continuing. Once the tack is done and you are satisfied, remove the shim and finish welding the washer onto the axle.

Great tip, Robert. I went to a machine shop that was closing down (retiring) and bought some center drill bits. The perfect size for making the spoke holes is a #3 center drill. (Richie Rich)

They'll fit in any hand drill or drill press and won't 'drift' like a regular drill bit. Plus, there's a tip on each end in case you break or wear out one end. Another advantage is that you can drill and countersink the holes in one operation. Here's a picture....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/CenterDrills123456.jpg

When I welded my hubs, I used a piece of angle iron and butted the washer at the end so I had a pefect 90 degrees as well used a welding magnet for extra stability. Even with all this, I still had a significant warping, but by tapping with a hammer, I was able to minimize the warping to a point where it turned very true. I rotated the welded hub along the angle iron and tapped where the highpoints were until I was satisfied the hub ran true. Warping is just a natural reaction to the intense heat created by welding.

I use vasaline for cutting oil - just dip the bit right into the jar. Seems to do the trick.

I made a simple fixture to hold all the washer together and drilled them all at once. Then I used a larger drill bit to chamfer the holes ... now will come the fun part of welding them to the axle.
http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=140948414/a=6231239_6231239/t_=6231239
Mike

Originally posted by Bikerbearman

ed k, if you are still around, did you ever get your wheels build using the washers from aircraft spruce? has anyone else used these and how did they work? i couldn't fine anymore post about it except ed had no prob drilling. if these are ok then i will order some. thanks
-JW

The wheels went together really well. I like the fact that the center whole fit so snugly to the shaft that I didn't need to worry about "shimming" to center it. I actually brazed the washers to the hubs. Brazing is a nice method for joining when there's a snug fit like a shaft into a hole. I'm a little reluctant to talk about how well it worked because I haven't finished my DW so I don't have any road miles on my DW yet but I'm pretty confident that the brazing will hold and it looks great. I'd bet the close fit would help if you welded them too. I sizzled the cadmium coating off first with muratic acid. got my washers fri. great turn around. they fit nice, wow, i like em.

vegan777
02-20-2008, 11:44 PM
I thought I could find a washer here in town. Checked with a farm supply store, one or two tractor stores, Fastenal etc.
2 1/2" washer with 5/8" hole, NOT TO BE FOUND.

Washers from aircraftspruce mentioned in this thread are a little smaller than 2 1/2" OD. But they are a tad thicker than the other possibility mentioned.

I went through the same routine for the bearings...contacting two local bearing supply stores. www.thebigbearingstore.com was a quick source.

TheKid
02-21-2008, 02:27 AM
All you need is a length of 1/8" x3" flat steel bar 12 to 14 inches long, and a 2 3/4" hole saw. Drill out the pieces with the hole saw, and you'll have 2 5/8" discs with a 1/4" hole in the middle. Then drill the 1/4" hole to whatever size axle you use. You'll have hub washers that fit the axle exactly, and the 1/8" larger diameter won't make any difference.

vegan777
03-06-2008, 10:47 PM
I ordered 12 washers from www.aircraftspruce.com

They said they would just put them in the mail.

When I got the shipment there was no shipping charge.
But when I got my credit card bill there was a separate charge for over $6.00.

gbbwolf
04-29-2008, 12:31 AM
Bigbearing store pillow block bearing start at 1 inch fastenal has them in stock.
Not having any luck on washers kinda sucks. Having the hub flanges machined they want 50 bucks a frickin piece. weird thing is same price for having them cut and center hole drilled. or having them cut center hole drilled and all 18 holes drilled also.
Ok spent all fricking day playing with software i downloaded from emachineshop.com
I can have these made cost for 4 50 bucks each lmao
cost if you buy 30 is like 16 bucks each lol
if ya buy 50 or 100 price is between 11 t o12 bucks
I will be doing the schimano hub thing with disc brakes mounted to it next.
Like the kyoto uses. Let ya know price lol

gbbwolf
04-29-2008, 12:39 AM
Fastenal has that 1/8" thick 3" wide flat bar for .18 cents an inch or 2.16 a foot.
But what kind of hole saw will rip through 1/8 steel any ideas.

TheKid
04-29-2008, 02:41 AM
Milwaukee or Blu-Mol bimetal hole saws cut through 1/8" thick steel with ease. I cut this plug out of 3/16" with a Blu-Mol. It's not round because I had to grind it to fit the hole.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/DW/000_0199.jpg

gbbwolf
05-17-2008, 05:15 AM
Ok the inside hole is slightly bigger but fits 5/8 " bolt

Not sure if this is what ya'll are looking for but it may be.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5TA38

gbbwolf
05-17-2008, 05:59 AM
To order you need a business so if any one has a business and wants to help me order from these jerks please let me know.

Odd Man Out
05-17-2008, 09:19 PM
Howdy GBBWolf
The "solution" is to become a corporation of course...
All you need is a name to fill in the slot and a title.
Mine is "Benson Aviation Research Corp.," and my title is "CIO" (Chief Information Officer). If they want to know my affiliation, I tell them "Government Research". I figure if I ever come up with anything worthwhile that I would indeed volunteer it to dear old Uncle Sam being the patriotic humanoid that I am...
Bottom line is that you can then order from these sites. It opens up a whole new world of opportunities, albeit mostly much more expensive ones. I am of course NOT a corporation but I figure my white lie hurts no one and provides further business to the site. This is about as illegal as I go :eek:. Hope this helps.

Odd Man Out
Formerly Laus Deo

gbbwolf
05-18-2008, 08:36 AM
Took your advice I am now AtoZ Recumbents LMAO
We shall see if this works.
I expect a phone call tommorow lol

Liar Liar Pants On Fire........

trikeman
05-18-2008, 10:23 AM
I don't know if all Graingers are the same, but mine wanted a copy of my business license.

Odd Man Out
05-18-2008, 05:09 PM
I've never been asked for a biz license and have never been called... BTW trikeman, I would discourage you from trying to gain stealth secrets from official gov't sites ... they do indeed require biz licences ;)

Odd Man Out
Formerly Laus Deo

trikeman
05-18-2008, 05:43 PM
Hmm. Maybe my Grainger is stricter than yours. Its a stupid policy anyway. Have you ever actually ordered anything from them? I know when I first signed up with them online, they gave me a sign in name etc, but when I got ready to order it said my account was not authorized. That is when I called them and got the news.

gbbwolf
05-19-2008, 07:13 AM
If they ask for a copy of my business license guess i wont get it but at least i tried.

trikeman
05-19-2008, 07:27 AM
If they ask for a copy of my business license guess i wont get it but at least i tried.

Where are you located and what exactly is it again that you are looking for from Grainger? I could order it for you and ship it to you, but I am not sure its cost effective for you to pay all that shipping. McMasterCarr has 2.5" washers with 5/8" holes and they don't require anyone to be a business to buy from them. They are item number 91117A231


Jumbo Zinc-Plated Steel Thick Flat Washer 5/8" Screw Sz, 11/16" ID, 2-1/2" OD, .113"- .137" ThkIn stock at $8.16 per PackThis product is sold in Packs of 5

When I built my DW, I think I got my first set of washers from Grainger, but its been awhile, and memory of the order is failing. In the end, I ended up not using the big washers, because I used some old 27" schwinn wheels and wanted to use the spokes I had on hand. Since the schwinn had much smaller hubs and I wanted to use those spokes, I ended up buying my small washers at Ace Hardware. I am not sure I would recommend that anyone use washers as small as mine, because they were a real b*tch to spoke up on such a tiny hub (no clearance for spoke heads), but slightly smaller than what the plans call for is easily doable with the proper spoke length. These are 1.75" washers on my DW:

http://www.atlantamusclecars.com/DeltaWolf/IMG_0766.JPG


Before you decide what washers you need, you need to decide what rim and spokes you are going to use with the hub. Smaller washers can be accommodated by longer spokes, if you don't already have your spokes. Brad's plans are incredibly detailed, but when you run up against a constraint such as you can't easily buy something called for, its often a good idea to consider whether you might change something else and make it all work with what you can easily get. At least that is the way I view them. Its usually a good idea to check here first, since someone else may have tried what you have in mind. For example, I consider having to find headsets to build tadpoles a PITA, but others here have tried the bolt and bushing method and found them wanting. The bushings are much easier to buy, but if they don't work as well, then they are probably not a good idea.

The largest washers I was able to find without going to Grainger was from TSC and Aircraft Spruce has some big ones as well. I can't remember how large they were.

gbbwolf
05-19-2008, 08:09 AM
Well i just got my email from grainger think i got approved.
Also got an email stating that my order could be tracked by signing into my account.

I Already had my rims and spokes. Using the spokulator from richie rich i determined that i needed 80 MM hub flanges which is like 3 and 1/16 of an inch So using 3 inch washers will work with a slight adjustment.
Grainger has both the size i need and the 2.5" ones that brad calls for both in 1/8" thickness.
Links at parts sources.
Ordered 2 boxes of each.So i got 10 of the 3", and 10 of the 2.5"

Dear Fill in the blanks: "Changed this so you dont know who my account is LOL"

Thank you for placing your recent order online with Grainger. We appreciate you choosing Grainger as your business-to-business source for maintenance, repair and operating supplies.

Your new Grainger account number is XXXXXXXXX "Changed this too" . This new account has a $1,000 line of credit. If you require a higher line of credit please contact us.

This account number may be used to purchase products at any Grainger branch. To locate a branch in your area, click the "Find a Branch" feature on the top navigation bar.

If you have any questions, please contact a Grainger.com Customer Care Representative toll-free at 1-888-361-8649. Customer Service is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Thank you for your business.

trikeman
05-19-2008, 08:27 AM
Wow. I must not have an honest face or something, cause they sure weren't so easy with me. Congratulations.

gbbwolf
05-19-2008, 08:30 AM
Well i did mine online not in person so maybe that was the difference.

Odd Man Out
05-19-2008, 08:52 AM
I took a completed hub and the rim I was using to my LBS and they figured out the spoke length for me. Worked perfectly...
Trikeman, I actually only used Grainger to order the washers in question -- I ended up not using them because they were too wobbly.
If you have money out the kazoo (weird mental image there...,) you could go to Misumiusa.com and order custom manufactured washers to the specs you want for only $18 each !?!?!
I use MSCDirect.com for pretty much all my strange manufacturing needs. Has anyone else discovered this great site???
Ramblings done

Odd Man Out
Formerly Laus Deo

TheKid
05-19-2008, 03:03 PM
I use MSC a lot for grinder discs. Cutting and flap discs mostly. Great service, fast delivery.