What is the purpose of

[jimFPU]

the welding nozzle on a gasless MIG? My great find for a brand new one came without the nozzle:(, and the replacements Harbor Freight sold me don't have threads to screw them on:mad:...another 50 mile round trip to return them and try and get the right ones...but I don't think they have them since the ones I got were all they had.:eek:

Any way is it imperative to have the nozzle before welding? What does it do in gasless MIG? Is it just a protection from the lead, or does it help shield the gas from the flux core?

[g-man]

with flux core the nozzle is not absolutely necessary,but it will help protect the tip from damage.I would not drive 50 miles for a nozzle.look around locally a lot of hardware stores sell small buzzboxes and parts,such as menards and home depot.maybe you can pick one up at one of those places,but i wouldn't make a special trip.

[jimFPU]

It wasn't a special trip the last time as I needed a mask and gloves, but it's $10 I didn't have to spend + gas. Dang it. Oh, well. Education cost. I'll take the box with me to a box store and see if I can get something that fits.

Thanks.

So I can still try and make some sparks, I just need to be careful?

[g-man]

go for it,g-man

[TheKid]

Mine just slides on with a twist. It's just basically a cover over the tip, and prevents spatter from flying around, sending it forward. Don't ask me how I know.

[gbbwolf]

Has them for lincoln welders, doitbest hardware has several models.
fastenal can order just about any nozzle you need.
Tractor supply carries them.
Or you could just buy it off the internet at welding supply, shipping being 6 bucks, be cheaper than the gas.

Most welders dont have threaded ones if I am correct it just slides up and on with a slight twist.

nelson

[gbbwolf]

To know what model welder you bought LOL.

Nelson

[TheKid]

I believe you bought Chicago Electric welder. If HF sent you the nozzle, then it should fit. Just try sliding it on. There should be no male threads on the end of the gun, just 6mm female threads to accept the tip.

[zobman]

you don't need a nozzle for gasless welding. The nozzle directs the gas when welding with gas. If your not using gas, you really don't need the nozzle. Not sure what H.F. welder you are using, just be careful if your welder tip is hot all the time.

[TheKid]

It's hot all the time. That's one reason I know not to use it without the nozzle. The second was the spatter pattern without it. I had hot spatter on my arms because it wasn't contained. Just look inside a nozzle of a cheap welder and you'll see the buildup inside.

[trikeman]

My tip isn't hot unless I pull the trigger, but as these pictures show, the nozzle does a good job of protecting the delicate brass parts from weld spatter.

http://www.atlantamusclecars.com/DeltaWolf/Nozzle 001.jpg (http://www.atlantamusclecars.com/DeltaWolf/Nozzle%20001.jpg)

http://www.atlantamusclecars.com/DeltaWolf/Nozzle 002.jpg (http://www.atlantamusclecars.com/DeltaWolf/Nozzle%20002.jpg)

http://www.atlantamusclecars.com/DeltaWolf/Nozzle 003.jpg (http://www.atlantamusclecars.com/DeltaWolf/Nozzle%20003.jpg)

The flux core nozzle is on in the first picture.

If I put my gas nozzle on, it would keep some of the spatter from coming backwards, but that is not its purpose (as zobman said) and I can't see around it nearly as well as I can the smaller flux core nozzle. The nozzle is made from some sort of hard plastic (bakelite type sustance?), whereas the gas nozzle is metal.

[TheKid]

Mine has a metal nozzle, and protrudes about 1/4" past the tip. I dropped it once and couldn't find it right away, so I kept welding. The first thing I noticed was the spatter hitting my arms. I was glad it was fall and I had a long sleeve shirt on. I also noticed I couldn't see the puddle as well. Then I forgot to shut it off before I put the gun on the table, and found the tip was hot even before pulling the trigger. That did it. I searched for the nozzle and found it rolled about 6 feet away under some bushes next to the driveway.
My neighbor said cheap welders are built with hot guns, and are just starting to come around to the safe side. He also said he heard that all new wire welders are required to have this feature for safety reasons, but he's not sure if that's true. All I know is that the same welder I have is now sold with a cold tip until the trigger is pulled.

[jimFPU]

OK, I'll try and answer the questions and ask another one.

CE 90 amp flux wire welder, model 44567

Hot tip (unfortunately)

OK, so I just need to apply a bit more pressure installing the welding tips? They don't seem to be the right ones and there are no threads inside them. Are they help on via pressure, and not screwed on?

[trikeman]

My nozzles just press on - no threads. Let's not get confused with terminology. Tips are the little copper cylinders with a tiny hole in the middle that the wire goes through. Those do have threads. Nozzles are the things that cover the end of the gun and usually don't have threads.

Take a look at the end of your gun where the nozzle would go. If there are no threads there, and no threads on the inside of the nozzle, it would be pretty hard to screw anything on.

[jimFPU]

Yes, the tips are the little copper bits where the wire comes out. I was referring to the nozzle that goes over the whole end of the gun, sorry.

My nozzle has threads on the gun side, and the nozzles have no threads inside them...I'll try and post pics later.

[jimFPU]

OK, my welder:
http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r399/jnk6/DSCN0383.jpg

The torch end:
http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r399/jnk6/DSCN0385.jpg

The nozzles they sold me:

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r399/jnk6/DSCN0379.jpg

After 15 minutes on the phone getting some clarification, they tell me 36 of these are already on backorder and they don't know when they are due in. They also told me I have a cold tip welder, which directly goes against the hot tip welder warning on page 16 of the manual. I think I'll just treat it as if it were hot until I can prove different.:eek:

[trikeman]

Pretty easy to check the hot tip thing. Just put your hood on, turn on the welder, ground the workpiece and tap the wire to the workpiece WITHOUT pulling the trigger. If it sparks its hot. Just occasionally stick that end in some tip dip and weld until you get a nozzle cover. Its kind of messy, but it does the job.

I am guessing you can't slip those nozzles they sold you over the torch well enough so that they stay on?

I think I bought mine at either Home Depot or Northern tool - less than $5. Some people also just use Pam.

[jimFPU]

I tried...they don't stay on. Just a bit too big.

I wonder if bubble gum would hold...?:D

Or hey, maybe metal tape? May have to try...:cool:

[trikeman]

I tried...they don't stay on. Just a bit too big.

I wonder if bubble gum would hold...?:D

Or hey, maybe metal tape? May have to try...:cool:

The nozzle doesn't need to be conductive. Maybe just wrap some paper or a slice of coke can around it to make a better fit. If the paper gets too hot, it will just burn off.

[jimFPU]

Now I have to hack my welder...LOL.

[TheKid]

Lokking at the pic again, it looks like you're missing a spring that goes over the part you thought was threaded. I looked at the manual, and the inside of the welder looks identical to mine. They don't have the spring as a separate part, but you could call for more info:
For technical questions, please call 1-800-444-3353; Troubleshooting section at end of manual.

Here's a pic of mine:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Disc%20Adapter/000_0394Small.jpg

[trikeman]

Good eye. If its just a spring, the hardware store will probably have one that will work.

[gbbwolf]

Looks like the same nozzle for my clarke.
And a tweco tip.

Also looks like the lincoln nozzle I saw at lowes.

Fastenal has em too here.

Nelson

[papa]

The nozzle doesn't need to be conductive. Maybe just wrap some paper or a slice of coke can around it to make a better fit. If the paper gets too hot, it will just burn off.

The 'nozzle' you gauys are refering to, is actually called a "cup"... same with TIG. That said...

The 'cup' is usually two or three piece construction. metal inside and out with an electrical insulator sandwiched in between. Just wrapping a metal band around the tip of the stinger will cause you problems because if the band is made of metal, then it becomes conductive and will arch whenever it touches the grounded work piece. Been there.. done that, when my cup got munched one day and I used a modified 3/4" copper tubing reducer to 'get me by' until I could get the correct one. A real pain!

Black, heat resistant plastic cups are readily available and specifically made for flux only applications. Last ones I looked at were at Lowes hardware - cheap too, about $4.

[TheKid]

Once again Papa comes through with the info. The spring isn't listed as a part, but it may be part of the torch tube as an assembly. Maybe they'll send you a new one if you can't find a spring. If you look at the manual, they show how to replace the trigger switch. To replace the tube, all you have to do is unscrew the nut and it slips out. I need a new liner in mine, and since your machine looks identical to mine, I'm going to call and order it. Thanks for starting this thread. Now I know where to get parts for my welder. Here's the manual link:

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/44000-44999/44567.PDF

[jimFPU]

Yes! Yes! Perfect, I've seen the springs in the replacement parts area. I'll try one of those, then maybe I can get this thing to work.

Papa, I do have the 'cup' or 'nozzle' with the insulation in the end that touches the trigger side of the torch.

I'll get a spring and be done, hopefully.

[TheKid]

You can see the spring in the pic on the right where they show how to change the trigger switch in the manual. Just zoom in on it, it's as plain as day.

[jimFPU]

Yep, sure enough. I'll get one tomorrow.

[TheKid]

Let us know how you made out. I'm sure you and I aren't the only ones who need parts for cheap wire welders. The only spring I saw in the parts list was for the spool. Hopefully you won't have to get the whole tube. If you do, you could probably wrap some stiff wire in the grooves, maybe from a thin wire hanger.

[jimFPU]

I think I saw just the spring at Tractor Supply or Lowe's...tell ya tonight.

[jimFPU]

OK, couldn't find a spring so I made one out of .032 safety wire from my old aircraft maintenance days...
http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r399/jnk6/DSCN0388.jpg


Now the nozzle stays on!!

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r399/jnk6/DSCN0387.jpg

Sparks soon...:eek:

[TheKid]

Bingo! Wire always comes in handy. Too bad all our problems aren't that simple.

[rickairmed]

Jim for future referance you dont need the nozzle it is only needed if you are welding with gas which I am pretty sure your welder cant do. The only reason to even use a fluxcore nozzle would be if your welder were set up for gas and that would only be to keep the gas ports in the gun clean . I will also say splatter is going to hit your arms MAN UP :D I have more little white pock marks from years of welding than I can keep track of :D.


Rick