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DannyC
06-09-2014, 01:06 PM
The "fill-in" High Roller project advanced another step or two today.

The Head Tube is in (blew a hole in the main tube unfortunately, but I will deal with that later) the front wheel was installed and the minimum safe distance of the Bottom Bracket was checked for pedal/wheel interference. The rear seat-support bean was installed.

The welding was a nightmare (round tubes and my lack of experience combined I guess) I still am having trouble actually seeing the weld operation. It may be that I'm blind, or that I need a different helmet. Anyway, everything appears to be in good alignment at this early stage. I will have a lot of weld cleanup/grinding to do to make this look anything other than ugly though.

http://s5.postimg.org/qy74iwmzn/P1030066.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/qy74iwmzn/) http://s5.postimg.org/lwv53sq5f/P1030067.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/lwv53sq5f/) http://s5.postimg.org/j41xjrpsz/P1030068.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/j41xjrpsz/)

Regards,

Dan.

go1000go
06-09-2014, 01:31 PM
Looking good, I did the same made a highroller as a fill in project, took 6 months, but it am not retired.........yet, well not for ages actually.

Anyway just a consideration, are you sure the rear tyre is the one you will be using and is it pumped up fully, otherwise you might have a clearance issue, but you can gain a bit when you change the dropouts.

Also what rear brake are you going for rim or disc, or even drum?

DannyC
06-09-2014, 02:19 PM
Hi Tim,

That tyre is just "what was there on the 26-inch rim", I expect to put a nice Schwalbe high-pressure (lower-profile) tyre on there instead of that big knobbly off-road monster.
This bike is going to get the 8 x 3 SA hub that is on my current trike and the new trike will get my 8-speed SA hub that I have already put into a 700c rim with a Schwalbe Energizer tyre.

I am going to add a seat-stay along with it's rim-brakes on the rear of this High-Roller, I cut that out today and it is the next welding operation on the back-end.
I am not sure about the front yet, I might try a budget disc capable hub and make a disc calliper mount for the forks.

Not wishing to rub salt in any wounds but...This "retired" lark is fabulous and I heartily recommend it!

I do miss the really big-bucks I used to earn of course, but I want to have fun rather than work 15 hours a day like I used to.

I am still unsure how to sort out a rear support stay system for my Ocean Cycles seat that will be common between my two bikes, but thinking these things though is all part of the fun.

The thing is, I can't keep building more & more bikes and once I have these two sorted, I am not sure "what's next".....yet.

Take care and best regards,

Dan.

go1000go
06-09-2014, 04:15 PM
The thing is, I can't keep building more & more bikes and once I have these two sorted, I am not sure "what's next".....yet.

Errr why not???:evilgrin:

DannyC
06-09-2014, 06:24 PM
Errrr.....because SWMBO will remove my nadgers with a rusty spoon I suspect. ;-)

Twinkle
06-09-2014, 06:50 PM
starting to look good Danny

regards emma

Neil B
06-10-2014, 03:24 AM
The thing is, I can't keep building more & more bikes and once I have these two sorted, I am not sure "what's next".....yet.

Sell them and build more :)

Neil

DannyC
06-10-2014, 10:45 AM
If there is ever a prize for "The Ugliest Welds On The Planet" I am definitely in with a chance.

I managed to get a seat stay cut & welded to the back end today, but the welds were truly awful and I think I should hand in my MIG gun and take up knitting..Ha! Ha!

http://s5.postimg.org/hu8pigler/P1030072.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/hu8pigler/)

It is truly "UGLY" and I can see "hours of filing & grinding FUN" on my horizon.

Regards,

Dan.

darnthedog
06-10-2014, 10:50 AM
Nah-they are not so bad- I have seen uglier- mine. Nothing a little flap disc won't make look super. Really coming along there Danny.

bambuko
06-10-2014, 11:01 AM
Cheer up Dan, I've seen worse here :surprised:
and they are not consistently bad - some places are better then others.

Where it's bad it seems to me to be "cold" (ie just a weld deposited on top of two parts you are trying to join, without melting enough or at all of the base parts).
Typical problem with MIG where it is easy to be deceived that your settings are OK.

For example a weld between stays and seat upright looks quite reasonable and if all of them looked like this you would be fine (I still think you will get away with it - just don't grind too much away in an attempt to make it look OK :rolleyes4:)

DannyC
06-10-2014, 11:30 AM
Thanks Guys!

It is a bit dispiriting to have such varied results, in my "other life" I am known for being a perfectionist about things.

The thing is that other than "the real thing" I have nothing much to practice on so getting it wrong is a bit of a downer.
Some of the beads do indeed look cold Chris, I reckon I am moving too fast and not giving time for heat to get into the piece.
The biggest difficulty is that I just cannot seem to see the weld area (tried all possible settings of this helmet).
Welding forum suggest "bin" the auto-darkening helmet and use a fixed shade.

Other than grinding off the stuff that's clearly in the wrong place and/or doing no real good, I shall be very careful not to go OTT.

Many thanks,

Dan.

graucho
06-10-2014, 11:51 AM
If there is ever a prize for "The Ugliest Welds On The Planet" I am definitely in with a chance.

I managed to get a seat stay cut & welded to the back end today, but the welds were truly awful and I think I should hand in my MIG gun and take up knitting..Ha! Ha!

http://s5.postimg.org/hu8pigler/P1030072.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/hu8pigler/)

It is truly "UGLY" and I can see "hours of filing & grinding FUN" on my horizon.

Regards,

Dan.


Hi Dan, A little tip I like to give is… Before you strike your spark with these migs, take a small hand torch http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll13/grauchosbikes/torch.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/grauchosbikes/media/torch.jpg.html)
and heat the area to be welded for approx 20 seconds. The beads flow will start immediately and will be more consistent throughout the length of the bead.
Looking really good so far.

trikeman
06-10-2014, 11:56 AM
Where are you welding? You probably need to get more light on the weld puddle to see it. Some people shine a strong halogen on the weld area. Make sure you aren't getting light coming in behind your head and causing you not to be able to see. If you are getting light from behind you, make yourself a shield on the back of your helmet of leather or cloth. If you can't see, you will never be able to weld consistently! Seeing, is your number one job right now, by far.

Try not to look at the arc. Instead concentrate on seeing the puddle.

Some of being able to see the puddle is also knowing what you are looking for. The thing that helped me most in that vein was watching well-filmed videos of welding. That way, I knew what I was looking for. That means the videographer took the time and expense to get a good lens for the camera.

Until you can see the puddle, I think you should forget about welding things together. Instead just practice trying to see the puddle. Also don't worry about burning through. Practice just seeing and moving the puddle around. Burn on some holes intentionally and learn to recognize what things look like.

Some of the best videos I have seen that showed me what the puddle looks like were there Wall Mountain videos. I bought mine, but they have been pirated so much now that when I wrote the author to report copyright violations on YouTube, he said he had just given up trying to stop it (such a shame).

Here is what his stick videos look like. he also makes a MIG one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2537L5H7NiY

bambuko
06-10-2014, 12:33 PM
+1 on what the trikeman says,
until you can see the puddle it's a lottery
there is nothing wrong with auto-darkening helmet (IMO :cheesy: - which forum is suggesting you bin it?)

do you normally wear glasses? (varifocals?)

you have to be able to see what you are doing

as for practicing - get some crappy bike frames and cut them up to use for practicing
they don't have to be good - just cheap

DannyC
06-10-2014, 12:45 PM
Thanks Graucho & Trikeman,

I like the pre-heat idea. ;-)
Where was I welding? in my workshop with a 5 foot Fluorescent tube directly over the weld area and with good bright daylight as background light.
I added a rear cloth-hood (attached with velcro) to my welding helmet last week to make sure it was not light sneaking in and reflecting off the inside of the visor lens.
I don't have a local buddie to get to check it out (or my welding style out) or to borrow an alternate helmet from. Maybe it is interference from my eyeglasses and I need to use a cheater-lens instead.
I just don't know.

Regards,

Dan.

DannyC
06-10-2014, 01:46 PM
The suggestion to bin the Auto and go for a fixed shade was from the migwelding.co.uk forum.
They may have been meaning the "cheaper" e-bay sourced items (<£30 like mine) and not the big-name brands though.
My logic was that if it met the Euro/UK specs then it had to be of a reasonable quality and fit for purpose.
My brother has suggested he may have a "spare" unused helmet that he paid £65 for at a pucka welding supplies house.
Anyways, I will keep on keeping on.

Thanks all.

Dan.

bambuko
06-10-2014, 03:14 PM
The suggestion to bin the Auto and go for a fixed shade...

To use a phrase popular in government circles recently :evilgrin: you may have "mis-remembered" the advice :)
They have suggested that: "...may be worth picking up a cheap fixed shade lid and seeing if it helps..."

All the various advice was around looking and not seeing (whatever the reason... glasses, helmet, etc, etc).
I still remembered exactly the same problem when I started - I solved it by welding without glasses, using good quality helmet (the solution for you might be different).

Until you can see what you are doing you will be struggling :mad:

Twinkle
06-10-2014, 05:24 PM
To use a phrase popular in government circles recently :evilgrin: you may have "mis-remembered" the advice :)
They have suggested that: "...may be worth picking up a cheap fixed shade lid and seeing if it helps..."

All the various advice was around looking and not seeing (whatever the reason... glasses, helmet, etc, etc).
I still remembered exactly the same problem when I started - I solved it by welding without glasses, using good quality helmet (the solution for you might be different).

Until you can see what you are doing you will be struggling :mad:


No glasses and auto helmet works for me as well.
a snood helps keep the light from getting behind the helmet

regards Emma

edspedalcars
06-10-2014, 05:57 PM
HI Dan

I'm recalling my first days with my new HF 90 amp flux core welder, now Hobart 140/Mig).

I got the same disheartening results, you are. I practiced, I practiced, and I practiced some more.
I sent in pictures, asked and got feedback, and help, much of it, from the same people that are now helping you.

The one thing I learned, from all the 'practice', was that I was not able to quickly, apply all I was learning,

I wasn't able to 'do', what 'they' all wanted me to do.

I asked myself...Self Why? http://forum.atomiczombie.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

Answer, I was trying to read the book from the last chapter.
.................................................. .................................................. ...

My point Dan...

I didn't understand what the 'welder' was telling me. http://forum.atomiczombie.com/images/smilies/dunce2.gif
All the information and practice in the world is of little use,....... if we don't know how to use it.

So, I put aside (temporarily) the information I had been given, from my learned AZ friends,
and concentrated 'solely' on... 'what the welder was saying to me'.
Looking and listening for the most minute detail.
I even watched many of those welding video's, showing the 'puddle flow' etc. MANY TIMES WITH THE SOUND OFF.

I went back to the basics, (Brad's tutorial), took my time and using scrape emt tubing, cut it up, welded it, cut it, welded it, etc,etc.

I needed to learn what my equipment was doing, before I could guide it, in the direction it needed to go.
I set the welder to the lowest setting, welded/tacked through all the wire speed settings. Wow! what a mess.
I did this for each of the voltage settings and wire speeds.

...........................(Note)................. ............

I couldn't have cared less, what the welds looked like, as far as quality went.
I needed to know, what they looked like, based on 'each' of the settings I was using.

When it burned through, what was my voltage setting, my wire speed ?
How long had I held it in that spot?
How long/short was my 'stick out' ?
Was I trying to 'lay a bead' when 'stitch welding/tacking' (same result), would be the better method on thin metal?
Did I remember to go from thick metal to thin?

When learning a new activity, there is quite often, 'mussel memory', to contend with.
In my case the 'mussel' was on top of my shoulders. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing002.gif

It took some time, but guess what?, by the time I finished, (becoming one with my welder), I had a much better idea/understanding what my welder was doing. In turn, I also had a better understanding, of what 'they' had been telling me all along.http://forum.atomiczombie.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm still learning all the above, as you are. As amateurs we don't weld consistently, therefore it's hard to get consistent.

Finally, you and I are not alone in this welding endeavor. Sometimes I didn't get an answer back......That was the answer !

For me, as it will be for you, the basic learning curve is pretty much over. It's now just make them welds better.

Hang in there Dan.

DannyC
06-10-2014, 06:41 PM
Thank you all very much for your advice and guidance.
I will get there, and I will master this thing if its the last.............




Regards,

Dan

DannyC
06-12-2014, 08:07 AM
Today we have a rolling frame with the addition of the rear dropouts.

http://s5.postimg.org/uf96lvm1v/P1030087.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/uf96lvm1v/)


http://s5.postimg.org/45o43304j/P1030088.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/45o43304j/)


While everything lines up OK from a "rolling wheel" perspective the additional distance that the rear axle is now away from the crown of the forks means that the brake pivots (oh so carefully positioned by trimming top & tail of the seat stays) are no longer in the right spot. Grrrrr.

I'm not looking forward to hacking them off and re-attaching them at all. My fault entirely, it is an obvious thing that I failed to think ahead about. I have sat on the main beam and "bounced" and nothing creaked or cracked (a bonus).

That's all from me.

Regards,

Dan.

go1000go
06-12-2014, 08:33 AM
Remove the brake pivots and fit a disc caliper, better stopping power.

DannyC
06-12-2014, 09:15 AM
Hi Tim,

I can't do that because the rear wheel that is going on this is an SA CS-RF3 hub that I own and is already built it is not disk capable.
Conventional wisdom suggest rear brakes are less useful so the V-Brake rear was my chosen option, with a disk up front for stopping sharpish.

It's a pain in the backside but not a total disaster, I'm just disappointed that I failed to think it through properly.

C'est-la-vie.

Regards,

Dan.

go1000go
06-12-2014, 11:01 AM
Hi Danny

Yep these things happen, but all part of the learning process.

With disc on front you should be fine.

It is not the end of the world refitting the pivots.

Tim

Neil B
06-13-2014, 07:58 AM
Always assume never check :evilgrin:
I've done that type of thing, many times, on all sorts of projects, You would think I would have learned by now.
As Tim said, it happens.
All part of lifes great tapestry.

Fortunately not a disaster.
I did a similar think on my warrior. The fork wasn't far enough apart to fit the brakes in. So I had to cut them off and use a disc. The wheel I had would do either rim or disc.
Disc brake is a bit ott for a parking brake, It's no good for stopping.
I think it looks cool with a disc brake.

Neil

DannyC
06-13-2014, 02:09 PM
Annnnndddddd.....

The common-carrier seat mounting is on the frame. :)
Yes, of course those blobby cold-welds will hold a 14 stone man in a seat onto a 45mm tube with only 3 and a half inches of weld area..
I have yet to devise a common mounting for the backrest of the seat though.

http://s5.postimg.org/chxn9k1nn/P1030091.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/chxn9k1nn/)

Regards,

Dan.

FrankCrank
06-14-2014, 08:32 AM
....hey Dan - think those welds will hold up no probs, but I'm assuming that seat is made of fibre glass or plastic, and looks like that will be a stress point where the bracket joins the seat. Your full weight will be acting directly on this area, and I'm thinking of Corporal Jones - "they don't like it up 'em" :evilgrin: ....

DannyC
06-14-2014, 08:45 AM
Hi Frank,

You are right there Capt Mainwaring, we certainly do not.

Those two "Steel Teeth of Doom" would be most uncomfortable to end up on. So if I remove the seat no-one is likely to ride off on the bike ;-)
The bit that these 2 bum-chompers are clamping is two pieces of 3mm angle back to back and welded together.
The "platform" this provides at the top is about 6 Sq. Inches of Steel shaped to fit in-between the two ribs of the seat.
M6 Domed socket headed bolts with penny-washers under them will then pass thru the seat and the angle-iron with a sandwich of rubber/pipe-insulation to cushion it.
I am hoping that this will be safe & secure. It meets with the seat manufacturers recommendations at least :-)

Regards,

Dan.

FrankCrank
06-14-2014, 10:40 AM
....OK Dan - the 6" sq bit is hidden from view in the pic, but that should spread the load nicely, no worries........

DannyC
06-14-2014, 12:22 PM
Well, yesterday I was bemoaning the fact that my brake bosses were in the wrong place because of an error in judgement of mine.

So today I removed the existing brake bosses as they were of no use in that position.
I thought (at first) that I would be able to just re-attach them further down the seat stays. So I carefully cut them off and file a nice profile into their tail-ends to re-attach them to the stays.
But, that doesn't work because the pivots would then be too far apart (as the further down the stays you go, the wider apart they are).

In the end I salvaged what I could and Zombified my own pivot mountings with the wheel in place and with some old spare brake-arms.
Having drilled two 6mm holes in a piece of 3mm x 12.5 mm bar at the correct distance apart for the brake bosses I fixed the bosses on with nuts & bolts and tacked the bar in place on the seat stays and proved to myself the arc of travel of the brake pads etc. was correct I then cut the bar to allow the removal of the wheel. Then I welded everything firmly in place.

They don't look wonderful but after some clean up they will be OK. The welding was less fraught this time too :-)

http://s5.postimg.org/r2eq4dwmb/P1030092.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/r2eq4dwmb/)


http://s5.postimg.org/a35rp4ler/P1030093.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/a35rp4ler/)

Regards,

Dan.

Ticktock
06-14-2014, 07:14 PM
Hi Dan,
That's the same problem I faced when I first built the tandem.. If you get the brake pivots in the ideal position to work, you can't get the wheel out without deflating a tyre. Your way of fixing is exactly what I did, and it worked fine.
Riding gets closer.
Steve G

DannyC
06-18-2014, 10:23 AM
Two steps forwards & 1 step back. :taz:

The stainless steel fixings to attach the seat to the home made mounts arrived today.
Fitting the mounts to the seat was not without incident unfortunately as one of the bolts jammed in its nyloc nut and could not be undone or done up and had to be cut off.
Having resolved this I had an opportunity to affix the seat on its QR spindle mounting and try sitting on the bike.

I really didn't like it.
The seat is too far forwards and therefore too high; I couldn't comfortably touch the ground while nestled in the "cup" of the seat.
I will cut the mounting tabs from the main beam and re-affix them much closer to the rear (which should fix the issue) as the further back you go, the lower the seat becomes.
Ho-Hum another day in retirement paradise. :)

Still enjoying the journey, and that is the main thing.

Regards,

Dan.

Neil B
06-18-2014, 11:17 AM
Top tip from a top tipster.
From experience, grease the threads on stainless bolts before assembling with nuts. If you don't they will bind up and destroy the thread, leaving you to cut them off, or if they are small enough, keep turning the spanners until they shear.
I often have this problem at work, it's a PITA, when you have to cut an M12 stainless bolt with a hacksaw blade in your hand with 25mm strokes, because nothing else will fit. :taz:

Neil

DannyC
06-18-2014, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the tip Neil,

It's all done up now (probably means I will never, ever be able to undo it then).

Awkward.

DannyC
06-18-2014, 02:54 PM
I managed to undo it and greased it up and re-assembled it.
Lost 1 nut/bolt to the dreaded "galling", so not too bad I guess.
Point noted for "next time". :)

DannyC
06-26-2014, 01:50 PM
Hi folks,

I must confess to having become somewhat "stalled" on this build of late.

I really need to get the seat firmly mounted so I can sit on it for real and get the BB and steering sorted.
Today I determined where and how to mount the support struts and I have cut and plugged my telescopic tubes.
Tomorrow (when the Araldite has cured fully) I will drill the ends and create the clamp-slots in the larger tube(s).
I do hope that M5 bolts will suffice to attach the bottom end (there is a lovely pre-made M5 threaded hole around each of the the donor fork(s) axle-slot(s)).

One observation I would make right away is that mounting & dismounting a High-Roller is a bit of an "odd" affair.
1. You cannot swing your leg over the seat because the seat-back is far too high.
2. For someone like me with a 30 inch in-seam "stepping" over the main tube is an exercise in callisthenics.
3. I am conscious that there are some positions that can dislocate my false-hip so mounting/dismounting will need to be a well rehearsed manoeuvre.

Perhaps I should have gone for the smaller front-wheel option to lower the main beam to avoid this issue entirely. Doh! (as Homer Simpson is wont to say).
It's a bit late now....... Darn-it, I really do not fancy revising the head-tube angle. It would mean chopping the current main-tube into 2 sections and re-joining them afterwards; when at the moment the head-tube is nice & snug and the integrity of the main-tube is good.

I will try it out once the seat is properly mounted and secure and see if I feel too "at risk" and the small-wheel option is therefore mandatory.

HHJJ
06-26-2014, 02:06 PM
Hi folks,

One observation I would make right away is that mounting & dismounting a High-Roller is a bit of an "odd" affair.
.

I have to lean my bike over these days to get my leg over (as it were).

Nearly there to try it out now!

Twinkle
06-26-2014, 03:01 PM
I have to lean my bike over these days to get my leg over (as it were).

Nearly there to try it out now!

come on guys , keep it clean this is a family oriented website ,

now did l mean that pun ?

regards Emma

DannyC
06-26-2014, 03:45 PM
It is all in your mind Emma, you naughty girl.

"Honi soit qui mal y pense" ;-)

The only "mounting" being discussed here was that of bicycles.

DannyC
07-02-2014, 11:43 AM
I went to trial-fit the seat today with its telescopic support tubes.
Attached the top end at the seat bracket, mounted the seat on its clamp, pulled the telescopic legs apart to attack to the rear forks and the bracket weld snapped (looked pretty, but insufficient penetration I assume).

That doesn't bode well for the critical welds on the bike really :-(. Anyway, I de-mounted everything and cleaned it up and re-welded the bracket.

Seat can be rotated through a wide range of recline-angles and feels good.

http://s5.postimg.org/ypubo8orn/P1030161.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ypubo8orn/) http://s5.postimg.org/4jvx9ghur/P1030162.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/4jvx9ghur/) http://s5.postimg.org/r7b6flxer/P1030163.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/r7b6flxer/)

DannyC
07-04-2014, 02:35 PM
Let's revise that "feels good" sentiment from the previous post.
The seat feels comfortable when you are recumbent, but I can't swivel to sit-up to put my foot down.
I tried welding up an extended gooseneck and find that the height needed to provide the knee clearance required while the bars are within reach means I am prevented from sitting up (unless I want the gooseneck inside my chest-cavity that is).

MaybeI got a dimension wrong somewhere? Arggghhh.



The head-tube goes through the main-tube approximately 30" along its length - Check.
The Bottom Bracket is located in a position to ensure that there is no possibility of a crank fouling the front wheel - Check.
The Seat back is sufficiently forward from the point where the forks are mounted on the main beam in order to ensure the cranks are accessible and at maximum extension the riders leg is still slightly bent - Check.


If I make the seat more "upright" then I can then place a foot on the ground while leaning/pulling myself forwards on the bars.

Perhaps it is because I am really a "dwarf" at only 5' 6" and with a 29-30 inch inseam?

Here are some pictures illustrating what I mean.
http://s5.postimg.org/5hbj9t84j/P1030165.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5hbj9t84j/) http://s5.postimg.org/hx893k1gj/P1030166.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/hx893k1gj/) http://s5.postimg.org/l1ix0ci8z/P1030167.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/l1ix0ci8z/)

Yes, I know...the last time you saw legs like that they were hanging upside down in a butcher's window ;-)

darnthedog
07-04-2014, 04:15 PM
Danny
In seeing your photos with you mounted I have a couple of suggestions- you may not like them.
1) Cut the triangle piece off. It was to be a seat back support your not using.
2) Move your seat base back toward the rear wheel- Just guessing 6 inches or ~ 16 cm.
3) Slide your BB back about the same 16 cm.
4) Leave the handle bar where it is along with the telescoping back suypport for your seat.
5) Reshoot the photos.

By moving the seat base towards the rear wheel it looks like it will lower you to the ground to be able to reach properly.
Hope that helps.

DannyC
07-04-2014, 05:34 PM
Hi DTD,
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to review this.
I see where you are coming from with those observations, and yes it would lower the seat towards the ground a bit.
What perhaps is not clear from the pictures is that the seat is actually pivoted around a point where the large tube (at 55-degrees to the main tube) actually nestles in-between the two rib-structures of the fibreglass seat.
The steel of the "seat-stays" is required to make the frame "bomb-proof", cutting it out would mean that in the event of the fork-welds failing the rear-end would not be triangulated any longer and would just collapse because the seat would just rotate around its pivot point while the seat-stays maintained their overall length.

According to the AZ plan document (If I have read it correctly) the seat back should start 7 inches from the attachment point of the rear forks (it can be less than this)....OR be moved forwards IF you are unable to ensure that there is no crank to front-wheel interference when the bottom bracket is located to meet your inseam size.

But, if this isn't working out for me (I have indeed gone "off-piste" with my seat modification) then as you say, some alternate approaches may need to be tried.
I just went out to my workshop and span the gooseneck around to face forwards. With this element out of the way I can sit up and plant both feet on the ground.
That suggests to me that I need to alter my gooseneck/handlebar arrangements and perhaps things will be OK.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks again.

go1000go
07-04-2014, 06:33 PM
Hi Danny

Imagine a world where that handlebar you hold is actually welded in place, then try getting off the seat, and guess what.... You are now stuck for clearance.

This is why I opted for the flat bar so my knees go this side of the bar, just like a barchetta does. Then the bars either side bring it back to a comfortable position, oh and the goose neck is straight and vertical.

Just saying how I got round the problem, not sure if we have created the problem for ourselves as the Ocean seat is slightly bucketed.

Might be worth looking at my highroller photos, just a thought

Tradetek
07-04-2014, 08:20 PM
Danny, from what I saw of your pivot mount, it seems to me that your seat is probably at least 2" higher than the seat in the plan.

Also, from what I recall seeing in the past, I think that you are about the same height as Brad, in which case looking in the photos that 2" differences appears to be about right... and may be the source of a couple of your problems.

Bill

darnthedog
07-04-2014, 08:37 PM
Danny-
Not to be contrary to your thoughts there-
The Spirit-The Tomahawk-the Warrior-The Viking, survive quite well without the triangle mounting.
And I think Bill might be right about the height issue as well.
So I suspect you could remove that triangle and move back and be ok.
But again this is only an opinion.

FrankCrank
07-04-2014, 09:49 PM
Hi Danny,

Like the look of gritty determination on your face :).

Sounds like you and I are around the same height, so can appreciate the 'vertically challenged' conundrum, and how to overcome it.

One thing that strikes me - your use of 26" wheels - very optimistic :rolleyes4: , would a 24" rear and 20" front be a better option ?

Didn't read thread from beginning, maybe you have valid reasons for using MTB wheels.............

DannyC
07-05-2014, 05:13 AM
Thanks all (Bruce, Bill, Tim & Frank),

Some really good points there that collectively contain enough tweaks to fix the issue I think.

imamedik
07-05-2014, 08:57 AM
.......I tried welding up an extended gooseneck and find that the height needed to provide the knee clearance required while the bars are within reach means I am prevented from sitting up (unless I want the gooseneck inside my chest-cavity that is).......
.......If I make the seat more "upright" then I can then place a foot on the ground while leaning/pulling myself forwards on the bars.

Perhaps it is because I am really a "dwarf" at only 5' 6" and with a 29-30 inch inseam?



DannyC, I too am 5'6" with a 29-30" inseam. When I built my version of a Highracer I had the same issues. the way I overcame it was to extend the gooseneck for knee clearance and then use curved handlebars. something like this

http://s20.postimg.org/4b0oq4v7t/handlebars.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/4b0oq4v7t/) http://s20.postimg.org/xb4i1c70p/Vendetta_handlebars.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xb4i1c70p/) http://s20.postimg.org/fon81c5qh/handlebars_2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/fon81c5qh/)

I think these bars would work http://www.amazon.com/Retrospec-Bicycles-Pursuit-Lightweight-Handlebars/dp/B00E1IDFYU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1404533540&sr=8-3&keywords=handlebars (http://www.amazon.com/Retrospec-Bicycles-Pursuit-Lightweight-Handlebars/dp/B00E1IDFYU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1404533540&sr=8-3&keywords=handlebars) or something similiar

DannyC
07-05-2014, 10:17 AM
Thank you so very much everyone.
I had a look at Tim's High-Roller pics and then had a play with angles etc.
If I insert a low-rise (aka almost straight) handlebar directly into the steerer-tube and put the gooseneck clamp and the bars on top I can reach the bar ends comfortably AND get both feet on the ground.
To be honest feet on the ground does introduce a slight "grumble" from my lower back (because that is a rather unnatural position), but with both feet up on the pedals it feels really comfortable.
I do like those bigger bars though Imamedik, I may have to get me some of them. :-)

Now all I need is a gooseneck as long as a set of handlebars or some successful "torch-time".

Many thanks again everyone.

go1000go
07-05-2014, 01:59 PM
Thank you so very much everyone.
I had a look at Tim's High-Roller pics and then had a play with angles etc.

Now all I need is a gooseneck as long as a set of handlebars or some successful "torch-time".

Many thanks again everyone.


Hey Danny did you see this one

http://forum.atomiczombie.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3952&catid=member&imageuser=2477

Probably the best photo of my handle bars, basically a standard mtb then the ends of a kiddies bikes handle bars, real easy to do.

I could not bring myself to spend the $40 for barchetta

http://shop.bacchettabikes.com/bacchetta-handlebar.html

Check out their home page also for pictures of the bikes

bambuko
07-05-2014, 02:10 PM
It's fairly easy to fashion your own handlebars using/canibalising handlebars from few other bikes.
Here, me making my bars:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q_f64INW__E/UXQ0zmEaIBI/AAAAAAAANnA/1jNASaWBXxs/s640/IMG_6895.jpg

The only disadvantage is that they end up heavy... but that's easily taken care off by loosing few lbs from the rider :cheesy: