For Newbies: What tools and skills you will need

[rykoala]

It occurred to me in a couple of threads I've been following that people who haven't yet built AZ bikes worry endlessly over things like which welder they should buy. Should they go with a cheap stick welder? A flux core MIG? Gas MIG? What brand is better? Which welding rod should I use? What size rod?

I am going to attempt to answer this question. I am not highly experienced, but I successfully built my own Meridian bicycle, and if I can do it then anyone can. I'm not particularly gifted, but I do have a knack for mechanical things.

1) What kind of welder should I get? Mig? Arc? Tig? Wire feed flux core?

I suggest getting a welder that can melt metal together using electricity and welding filler material. The AZ plans were all developed by Brad with an A/C arc welder. For those who don't know, that is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to welders. Even the nice ones are bottom of the barrel. Personally, I built my own using these instructions: http://www.geocities.com/aaawelder/ and it works fine. It has one setting, burns 1/16" 6013 rods just fine (going to try 7014's next) and I built my whole bike with it. It has two major settings: On and Off.

2) What tools will I need?

Brad puts this bit in all his plan pages on his website: " The Meridian can be easily built by anyone with a welder, a grinder, and a few scrap parts such as an old upright bicycle and some mild steel tubing."

Yep, that's what you need. A welder, an angle grinder, and some stuff to build from. I used a $20 angle grinder from the local Harbor Freight. I also bought my welding supplies there except for the helmet, a cheap $20 deal from a local supply shop. I also bought the grinding discs and cutoff disks at Harbor Freight. I already had basic hand tools and bicycle tools at home. Things like a chain tool and cassette tool are nice to have and if you're into bikes you should have them already anyway.

Here's my main point:
You don't need anything extraordinary to build Atomic Zombie bicycles

I didn't even know how to weld! Now, I do. I didn't know how to build bikes. Now, I do. I didn't know how to do many of the things that I did when I built my Meridian. Now, I do.

Don't agonize over what you'll need or what you'll have to know. Pick a set of plans and go for it. I chose a simple one, the Meridian. You can do the same or you can go for something a bit more labor intensive. They're ALL relatively simple machines anyway.

The biggest thing I can offer though: HAVE FUN!
Building and riding your own bicycle is VERY rewarding, and you CAN do it!

[AtomicZombie]

Great post, thanks!

Brad

[KoolKat]

Very inspirational, rykoala! I think alot of folks look at the pictures and think, "Whoa, I could never build something like that." They are so wrong! Anybody can!

[gbbwolf]

A welder,angle grinder,and metal, and get going.
It ain't hard.
Just go for it.

Nelson

[TheKid]

That certainly clears up any doubts about cheap welders being good enough to make these projects. As for tools, safety glasses and a full face shield are the first tools that should be on the list. These are inexpensive, and can save you from serious injury in case one of those discs shatters, which can happen more easily than one might think. Also, the sparks from the grinders are actually hot bits of metal that can get in your eyes.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_6970_200258724_200258724

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_6970_200305307_200305307

[jimFPU]

DW was reading over my shoulder...hits me and says: "See-just do it!!"

I think she wants her Street Fox right now.

[trikeman]

Yes good post rykoala. For me the proof is always in the pudding. By that I mean if someone else of normal abilities builds a bike with a el-cheapo welder from HF, or even the McGyver version as you did, it means the rest of us can too.

I think the thing as fpu's wife said, is to just get to doing something. If it doesn't work, try it again a bit differently. All of AZ's designs are well within anyone's abilities with very common handtools a cheap grinder and a cheap welder.

[ggriffin924]

I am working on a DW, and have never really done any welding before, I picked a MillerMatic 135, up off of Craigslist, for $300.00 and I practiced for awhile with the gass-less MIG welding, was not happy with the quality of the welds I could do with it, so I added a gas tank, CO2/argon and now I like what the welder can do, I just need more practice. With the gas-less welding I really just couldn't see the puddle. First few welds you will have to do over and over again, weld cut grind weld,,, gets old. I kind of wish I could start over and redo my first welds on my DW, my welds are looking a lot better now, I'm sure the next project will be a lot better looking as far as the welds go.

I bought a cheap 5 inch grinder, maybe a 4.5 inch would have been better, a few flap wheels, a few cut off wheels, one grinder wheel. Safety glasses that wrap around the temples. And I have to have hearing protection as well but that is just me, my ears ring with as much grinding as I have to do. Thick leather gloves, oh and of course "wife beater tank top", shorts and sandals. Makes welding fun and you look cool.

You will also need some type of angle measurement tools, I have been using a cheap plastic one like school kids use seems to work.

-Griffin-

[trikeman]

I kind of wish I could start over and redo my first welds on my DW, my welds are looking a lot better now, I'm sure the next project will be a lot better looking as far as the welds go.

You can.We take all the parts off the frame to paint it, so why can't we just make the frame again?

[jimFPU]

Safety glasses that wrap around the temples. And I have to have hearing protection as well but that is just me, my ears ring with as much grinding as I have to do. Thick leather gloves, oh and of course "wife beater tank top", shorts and sandals. Makes welding fun and you look cool.And after the rest of your body gets skin cancer from all the welding that has released UV rays, at least you'll be able to see and hear what the doctors are telling you about your impending death!! LOL!:eek:

[rykoala]

Thanks for the nice comments, and also for Stickying this thread. I'm honored!

A word on safety: While my original post left out a lot of that, safety should come first! I have become accustomed to wearing shorts and a shirt while welding, but really long sleeve shirts and long pants should be worn. My next door neighbor didn't do that when he had his custom motorcycle shop, and now he has skin cancers he has to get removed.

Eye protection: fully wraparound glasses are the way to go, if not a face shield.

I also highly suggest wearing your welding gloves while grinding. I got tired of picking shards of metal out of my hands. But then again I also took off the safety shield on my grinder so that I could use 4.5" disks on my 4" grinder ;)

[TheKid]

It's time for a 4 1/2" grinder.

[Ten80]

I would add to the list, for newbies to welding, a auto helmut - one of the self darkening ones. I found my welding improved dramatically when I got mine!

With the old style flip-down or handheld helmuts, I'd get the rod nicely lined up, move the other hand to bring the helmut into play, and the end of the rod would move, causing me to strike the weld in totally the wrong damn place! So I'd be chasing the work-site all over the kip.

Now that I've got the automatic helmut, I am a hell of a lot less stressed from the start, and it shows in the neatness and quality of my welds. I find I have much better vision too, and to top it off, it's ment an end to accidently flashing myself :D

Best $35 I ever spent in the workshop!

[SirJoey]

Actually, Ten80, you're supposed to be able to flip your helmet down by nodding your head downwards kinda quickly, without using your hand.
Still, it's no substitute for an auto-darkening one. I'm the same way, able to start much easier when I can see exactly where I am before squeezing the trigger!

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[TheKid]

They're kinda like computers. I never knew I needed one until I got one.

[locolarry]

I've been hanging around for a few months. Still haven't completed my Streetfox...but I would like to point out something...

So very much information comes at you so very fast from so many different posts and threads.... It takes forever to go back and dig out something that I saw weeks ago.... I wish that I had gotten a multi-subject notebook and jotted down "thread" "date" "post #" in different subject headings for later reference.
Example:
tools &parts-jigs for endcaps-02/07/08-#1

Either that or i've got to set-up different file headings in my "favorites" and learn to manage them better..
Is anyone organized that way? My memory is not so good
LL
This is in this thread in order to help new members get some kind of system set up from the git-go

[TheKid]

There's a search feature in these forums. Just type in a keyword. For instance, I clicked search at the top of the main page, typed in center point steering, and got this:
http://forum.atomiczombie.com/search.php?searchid=47522

[Richie Rich]

......and there's a LOT more info over in the old Forums. Click here....

http://www.lucidscience.com/forum/default.asp

What I've started doing is a quick 'cut & paste' of any good tips or info.
I'll open a new text document and paste interesting items there for future reference.

.....Richie Rich....
.

[Ten80]

Actually, Ten80, you're supposed to be able to flip your helmet down by nodding your head downwards kinda quickly, without using your hand.


There's a lotta things I'm supposed to be able to do that don't work as well as they do for others - flicking down my helmet, touching my toes, jogging, quitting smoking, controlling my "wind" in polite company......

At least the automatic helmet helps with one of my problems :D

[SirJoey]

There's a lotta things I'm supposed to be able to do that don't work as well as they do for others - flicking down my helmet, touching my toes, jogging, quitting smoking, controlling my "wind" in polite company......
At least the automatic helmet helps with one of my problems :D

Yeah, really. I know what you mean. Point taken! :D

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[n9viw]

Please elucidate how the automatic helmet helps control your 'wind'?! I really could use a trick like that, even for impolite company! ;)

[SirJoey]

Please elucidate how the automatic helmet helps control your 'wind'?! I really could use a trick like that, even for impolite company! ;)

That only works if you wear it on your butt...

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[rykoala]

If I wore a clear glassed helmet on my rear and I farted, it would automatically darken. Does that count?

[SirJoey]

If I wore a clear glassed helmet on my rear and I farted, it would automatically darken. Does that count?

Yep! That's the way it's supposed to work. In fact, that's how you safety test the auto-darkening feature...

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[Richie Rich]

For the past few projects, I've been using a welding helmet with a flip-up window.
It's the next best thing to an automatic window since the mask stays down like the automatic helmets.

I flip open the filter window with my free hand, line up what I'm about to weld, then slam the filter window closed at the last second.

When the filter window is open, there's a clear lens on the helmet so my eyes are protected at all times.

Click here to see it in action......

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2314/...d7bbb0a2_o.gif (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2314/2738861639_81d7bbb0a2_o.gif)

...Richie Rich....
.

[Sparky]

neat!

but that helmet needs stickers! i think its a law somewhere that says welding hemets need to be decorated somehow.

[Richie Rich]

You're right, of course. I'll rectify that today with several Atomic Zombie stickers...!!!

...Richie...

[jimFPU]

I have those cheap stickers on my new helmet. I may have to get my airbrushes out again...

[TAJones]

Nice tread... I am new here.... since I have always liked different I downloaded two plans to work on.... I am too old for the fancy Mountain Bikes, so these Bent Bikes seem to fit my needs.... I have noticed a lot of people haveing trouble welding etc...I'll step out on a limb and offer to help anyone that needs some help. I have 30 + years welding experience with just about anything ever made to weld with, but my specialty is TIG and gas torch.... Along with welding I worked at an Metal Fab company for almost 20 years Making just about anything that can be though of While all welding machines will stick metal together if you can afford a DC welder go that way....if you have an AC box keep your welds flat... For setting your machines drag your rod on some scrap and when it stops sticking kick it up 5 amps If you buy a DC box you can always hook up a Tig Torch if you wish...If you live in the DFW area of Texas I would welcome another Bike buddy and could probably do some of your welding TIG only or Gas torch.. Right now I am working on setting up a shop for hobbies, But welding machine is ready to go

Tom

[Richie Rich]

Welcome, Tom. You're in the right place. We're a fun loving friendly group who enjoy turning junk into masterpieces. Everyone here contributes something no matter how small. Your input will be greatly appreciated.

Good luck with the projects and don't hesitate to ask questions. And be sure to keep your camera handy as you go along. We LOVE pictures....!!

.....Richie Rich....
.

[egor102]

Nice tread... I am new here.... since I have always liked different I downloaded two plans to work on.... I am too old for the fancy Mountain Bikes, so these Bent Bikes seem to fit my needs.... I have noticed a lot of people haveing trouble welding etc...I'll step out on a limb and offer to help anyone that needs some help. I have 30 + years welding experience with just about anything ever made to weld with, but my specialty is TIG and gas torch.... Along with welding I worked at an Metal Fab company for almost 20 years Making just about anything that can be though of While all welding machines will stick metal together if you can afford a DC welder go that way....if you have an AC box keep your welds flat... For setting your machines drag your rod on some scrap and when it stops sticking kick it up 5 amps If you buy a DC box you can always hook up a Tig Torch if you wish...If you live in the DFW area of Texas I would welcome another Bike buddy and could probably do some of your welding TIG only or Gas torch.. Right now I am working on setting up a shop for hobbies, But welding machine is ready to go

Tom

I know Im being dense here but when you say gas welding does that include brazing style?

[macka]

I know Im being dense here but when you say gas welding does that include brazing style?

Brazing is OK for non structural stuff like water bottle cages and accessory holders but it isn't recommended for structural joining

[TAJones]

I know Im being dense here but when you say gas welding does that include brazing style?

Yes, But I don' like to braze things for a connection, especially a butt connection. I would either silver soldier with a tight slip connection or TIG weld it full penetration. If I had no other choice than brazing I would use an inner sleeve.

Tom

[macka]

I stand corrected

[macka]

Yes papa, but he was referring to bikes, not bridges, or planes.

[egor102]

thanks for the input. Ive been trying to decide which way to go on my project I wish to build, the problem is I dont have a workshop nor welder, so Im trying to figure out the best route to take when I start spending money. btw has anyone tried a bolt together frame?

[trikeman]

Egor - you could always take a drawing of the frame (with dimensions and angles) to a small welding shop and have them make it for you. My local shop has a line on their sign that says, "No job too small." I can't imagine it taking longer than an hour or two for a professional to make the frame from a measured drawing. This approach would require that you cut and prepare special parts, such as the two head tubes and bottom bracket common on most of Brad's serious riding designs. For that, you would need a place to use a hack saw and grinder for a few hours. You would take those three parts to the welding shop to use with the steel tubing (which they already have on hand). Actually welding the frame is really one of the simpler parts of building one of Brad's creations. Most of the time is spent planning, shopping, dreaming, and fitting and attaching stuff to it later. Some of the designs (the Marauder and Meridian for example) do require you to adjust the height to fit before you weld, but you could explain to the shop how to do that step.

The StreetFox requires you to do some on-the-fly welding of the crossbar/king pins to get the right center point steering, but there again setting them at a fixed angle would not be far off. The latter approach is the one that 25Hz takes when he just builds his cross bar with 15 degree angles to get his camber, since he is more about production speed and repeatability (he builds a lot of bikes for others) than building a slightly more accurate one-off design as we are here.

http://www.fleettrikes.com/20%2020%20heavy%20xmember.jpg

Since you don't know the exact dimensions of the wheels and tires before you do the work, that type approach will not give you quite as accurate a center point, but serious thought, planning, and paper and pencil (or a CAD program for you kids) is a far more powerful tool than a welder.

Which design did you have in mind?

[TAJones]

You could've fooled me. The coupon below is nearly 1/4" (.200") thick mild steel and was butt 'brazed' with off-the-shelf LFB. This is typical bronze rod which has an advertised tensile strength of 64,000 psi. I used bottled propane & machine produced oxygen. (The scrap had a lot of rust so bead apparence suffered as a result, but obviously didn't effect its strength.)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e69/bentcrafter/sample01a.jpg

Nice looking joint, which shows you have lots of experience with your torch..

Tom

[egor102]

Egor - you could always take a drawing of the frame (with dimensions and angles) to a small welding shop and have them make it for you. My local shop has a line on their sign that says, "No job too small." I can't imagine it taking longer than an hour or two for a professional to make the frame from a measured drawing. This approach would require that you cut and prepare special parts, such as the two head tubes and bottom bracket common on most of Brad's serious riding designs. For that, you would need a place to use a hack saw and grinder for a few hours. You would take those three parts to the welding shop to use with the steel tubing (which they already have on hand). Actually welding the frame is really one of the simpler parts of building one of Brad's creations. Most of the time is spent planning, shopping, dreaming, and fitting and attaching stuff to it later. Some of the designs (the Marauder and Meridian for example) do require you to adjust the height to fit before you weld, but you could explain to the shop how to do that step.

The StreetFox requires you to do some on-the-fly welding of the crossbar/king pins to get the right center point steering, but there again setting them at a fixed angle would not be far off. The latter approach is the one that 25Hz takes when he just builds his cross bar with 15 degree angles to get his camber, since he is more about production speed and repeatability (he builds a lot of bikes for others) than building a slightly more accurate one-off design as we are here.

http://www.fleettrikes.com/20%2020%20heavy%20xmember.jpg

Since you don't know the exact dimensions of the wheels and tires before you do the work, that type approach will not give you quite as accurate a center point, but serious thought, planning, and paper and pencil (or a CAD program for you kids) is a far more powerful tool than a welder.

Which design did you have in mind?


Thanks for the input for looking around, I will check the phone book and see what I can find for shops. :)