Loving Those 7014's

[TheKid]

Thanks to all the guys who recommended the 7014 sticks. I noticed they were good for AC/DC, so I tried the little inverter welder. The first thing I noticed was there was no need to "strike" an arc. I put the stick close to where I wanted to start, and it started welding. I only wish I tried an easier part to weld. I welded the hubs for the 24" wheels. It was a bit difficult to control the stick in a circle, even though I cut it in half first. I guess I got too used to the wire welder. The second thing I noticed was how smooth the welds were in the places where my hand wasn't so erratic. I also noticed almost a complete lack of spatter. There was so little spatter compared to flux core wire. There were almost no sparks flying around, either. With my wire core, sparks fly everywhere, which is one reason why I'd never use it in my basement. After filing down some high spots, the hubs were ready to paint. The welds are still a little lumpy, but acceptable, considering I used chrome enamel, and was anxious to get the hubs painted and cured as soon as possible. I should have taken the pic right after I welded, but I didn't think of it.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Keyed%20Hub/HubSmall.jpg

[rykoala]

That's good to hear! My next door neighbor used to build motorycles from scratch back in the 70's (he raced also, and co-owned a motorcycle shop) and he calls 7014 "Zip Stick" because its so easy to weld with. My next welding stick buy will be 7014. I like my arc welder a lot more than a flux core wire feed personally, as the one I used once splattered everywhere and made a mess, and the welds weren't any better than what I have now.

[trikeman]

Sweet! When I tried em I was almost convinced you could just lay the rod on the crack and between parts, turn on the power and watch em weld themselves. :D I'm glad you liked em, since I have been recommending them and 6013s to all the beginning welders I know.

[TheKid]

I couldn't believe the difference. I gave up using the stick welder because it was so difficult starting inside corners. I was using 6013's, which was recommended on most of the forums for beginners. There was lots of sparks and spatter. When I bought the wire welder, the sparks and spatter were still there, even though it's a DC welder, but it was so much easier to start.
This little inverter welder is 1/2 to 1 step up from your home made welder. It has an on off switch that's also a pot to go from 0 - 80 amps. More or less like a volume knob on old TV's and Stereos. I never thought to use it, because I found it in someone's trash, and was just going to use it for non- support aluminum parts. Now I'm thinking of getting an AC/DC stick welder, and abandoning the wire welder. I'll try the 7014's with my AC welder first, to see if sticking is still a problem on inside corners. I've read that more sticking occurs with AC than DC.

[TheKid]

Yeah! Thanks Trikeman. You're the first one that raved about them, and when others backed you up, I knew I had to try 'em.
I'll keep the wire welder around in case I run out of sticks. I asked my neighbor why he never told me about these. He said in all his years as a welder, he never used them, and in his 30+ years at the same shop, nobody there ever used them either. They do all MIG and gas welding, and he said he never used a stick welder before. He was impressed.

[TheKid]

I found some 6013's I didn't know I had and tried them with the inverter welder. A little harder to start than the 7014's, but the same results. I then tried both with the AC welder. Again, the 7014's were easier to start. But with the AC welder, there was a lot more spatter, and sparks flying around. I think I'll stick with the inverter welders.
I also needed 65 amps to get a good weld with the AC, but only 55 with the inverter.

[gbbwolf]

It a little hard to swallow that someone in a welding shop for 30+ years never touched a stick welder.

Seeing how most shops never saw a mig welder till almost exactly that same year.

Wasn't The Mig welding Process invented in like 1940 but never commercially developed until Miller came out with the Mig in like 1978.

I know my high school shop teacher got his first mig welder in 1983 after the price came down a bit, and the school district could afford them.

I was out of high school the year he got his but I went back in the fall just to watch him fire it up for the first time.

I may be wrong on my dates, a bit but I don't think so.

Tig was invented in like 1983 or so cause I know he wanted One of them also.

Just my 2 cents.

Nelson

[TheKid]

I was first introduced to welding in junior high school in the 60's. We were briefly taught gas welding and braising, arc and MIG welding in metal shop at that time. We made stuff like wrought iron railings and trash can carts. All our shops had top of the line machines. Table saws, band saws, lathes, printing presses, kilns for ceramics, Milwaukee power tools etc. I remember our wood shop teacher telling us to be careful with the table saw, because it was new and cost $2000. I don't know about your school district, but I live in a typical middle class town, neither rich nor poor.
My brothers father-in-law had an autobody shop, and he did all his welding with gas until the late 60's when he bought a MIG. He said then that he bought it because several of his friends in the business had them and recommended them highly. They said it increased productivity of the employees. Even when I asked my neighbor if he could get rods for me, he was bewildered and asked why I would need rods when I had the wire welder. Stick welders are considered archaic in a lot of shops, simply because MIG is more efficient, and time is money.

[trikeman]

Stick welders are considered archaic in a lot of shops, simply because MIG is more efficient, and time is money.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea, and embarrass themselves at the LWS or the local welders' bar, this topic comes up periodically in the welding forums where professional welders post. If anyone really wants to get flamed, go to a welders' forum and tell them that stick welding is obsolete lol. I have seen the fur fly from that one several times. About the only shops where stick welders are considered archaic, is places like factories or body shops, where the guys aren't really welders by trade. Much of the World outside of controlled environments such as production lines and places where they weld relatively thin metals, is still put together with stick welders. MIG has its place, but stick welding is in no danger of becoming obsolete any time soon because there are many places were MIGs just can't do the job as well. Most mechanics use more than one kind of screwdriver. Most real multi-purpose fab shops have all the welders - Stick, MIG, TIG, O/A, etc. They use whichever one is appropriate for the job at hand.

[TheKid]

That's true. The small fabricating shops have all kinds of welding equipment. I asked my neighbor about this a few minutes ago. He works at a production shop, (factory) where he was trained on the job, first as a helper to the gas welders who did mainly braising, until now where he's a manager. He said when he first started that there were a few old timers who complained about switching to MIG which was done before he started working there. It's pretty obvious that stick welders are not in danger judging by the number of units that are sold. I should clarify what I said before. There are a lot of production shops that consider stick welders archaic in that there is a loss of efficiency in producing in volume. The efficiency is lost in extra man hours involved in cleaning up the welds. Even MIG's are being replaced with robotic welders in a lot of those shops.
As for body shops, that's a different scenario altogether. There's more braising and spot welding involved, along with MIG, in production shops, which is where most of us get our repairs done. Restoration and custom shops have all kinds of equipment, including machinery to reproduce body parts.
Fluxless welding has the advantage of reducing or eliminating the cleaning process, which is one reason, from what I've heard, that TIG was introduced. I have friends in heavy construction that used to use stick welders, and were retrained with TIG equipment some time ago.

[TheKid]

I'm still shaky with the stick welder, but using a flashlight, I found I was getting good penetration even though the welds seem a little high, and look cold. I used the AC welder with a 6013 stick on the first weld, at 75 amps. it looks almost like the wire welder, but not as straight. Notice the spatter-

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Welds/th_000_0396Small.jpg

Then I used the DC welder with a 7014 stick, at 55 amps. First, before chipping the slag. Notice how much less spatter there is-

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Welds/th_000_0398Small.jpg

Here it is after chipping the slag-

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z66/edpol_photos/Welds/th_000_0399Small.jpg

[AtomicZombie]

Looking good. Get that weaving technique down now and your welds will look factory.

Brad

[TheKid]

I automatically weave without trying. The problem is, I have no control over it. With the gun, it's shorter and two handed, I could keep it straight. With the stick, even when it's down to a stub, the angle is all wrong, so the weave ends up more like a curly-q, with a twist in the middle and a u-turn at the end.
If I just let my hand go the way it wants on a flat sheet of steel, I could lay some beads down, and take it to an art show in New York. I could call it "September Morn" and sell it for a fortune to the yuppies. I'll just say I acquired it at an estate sale after the artist passed on.

[TheKid]

Puddle control is the biggie. With my shaky hands, it's difficult to do. I'd still be cutting my own keyways in shafts if they made zigzag barstock.
But, I still like the idea of little spatter and easy cleanup of the welds, so I'll continue with the inverter welder until I can get an O2 concentrator, then I'll use both stick and gas. And when more control is a must, the wire welder will come in handy.

[savarin]

Puddle control is the biggie. With my shaky hands, it's difficult to do. I'd still be cutting my own keyways in shafts if they made zigzag barstock.
But, I still like the idea of little spatter and easy cleanup of the welds, so I'll continue with the inverter welder until I can get an O2 concentrator, then I'll use both stick and gas. And when more control is a must, the wire welder will come in handy.

I need glasses for reading but for welding I use x3 magnifiers, I find I can then easily see the puddle and concentrate without having to strain.
I dont need such a high mag for anything else though.

[TheKid]

:D I could see the puddle meadering around the weld area. Now if we could team up, my eyes and your hands....

[TheKid]

As nice as 7014 is, one has to be very observent and focus on the puddle and not on the slag floating directly on top of it.

I noticed that pretty quickly. I also noticed that anything not sqeaky clean doesn't get welded very well, if at all. It's almost like soldering copper, which requires mechanical and chemical cleaning. I've been sanding and wire brushing the area with a stainless steel brush, then applying a mild acid solution before welding. I tested some welds before and after the acid application. Some held, some didn't without the acid. They all held with the acid. I use a diluted boric acid solution for the cleaning.

[macka]

There are a number of good beginner videos available to watch and get some idea of what the puddle should look like. I bought one called Arc Welding from Praxair. It is a short video and if you don't want to take a course or don't have time, this will help you get started.

Good all position rods are always nice to have, and I've added this one to my "to try" list. I'm thinking that this rod may be the one to try for under the gooseneck, which is a beast to get to.

[TheKid]

Any inside corner is still a bit of a challenge, but it's getting easier every time. I've only used 6013's and 7014's. I find the 7014's a bit easier to start, have a little bit better penetration, and also easier for inside corners.

[JayRay]

Hi All,
I am just learning to weld myself and intended to use 6013's for my LodeRunner. I am going to try the 7014's after reading this thread, thanks.

My question is, what size rods do you use? 1/16", 3/32" or ?

I am using 2" square 14ga tubing for my frame.
I will be using a 120 VAC, 130 max peak amp welder.

Thanks in advance for your help...
Jay :)

[trikeman]

Jay Ray - the 7014s I use are 1/16" that I got from Harbor Freight. They may carry bigger ones there, but those are about $5 for 2 pounds. Most welders don't use anything smaller than 3/32" or even 1/8" and it is sometimes harder to find less than 1/8" at places like Home Depot.

The rule of thumb I read somewhere is that you don't need a rod bigger than what you are going to weld with it. That makes sense to me, since you want to width of the bead to be about 1.5x the depth on full penetration. The 7014s put out a lot of metal so you won't have any trouble getting a wide enough bead. Some don't like them, because you have to be more accurate when you try to follow the line with a narrow bead. Since we are mostly welding 16ga steel here, I don't think you need more than 1/16" rods and those 7014s lay down like a dream.

The 6013s are pretty easy to weld with also, but not as easy as the 7014s.

[TheKid]

I have Lincoln 3/32 rods. I still have a lot left, but orders from HF usually don't get here for 2 or 3 weeks, so I'd like to order more as soon as I start running low. 5 bucks for 2 pounds is a lot less than what I paid. Do you think I'd be better off with the 1/16's?

[trikeman]

I have Lincoln 3/32 rods. I still have a lot left, but orders from HF usually don't get here for 2 or 3 weeks, so I'd like to order more as soon as I start running low. 5 bucks for 2 pounds is a lot less than what I paid. Do you think I'd be better off with the 1/16's?

It probably depends on how steady your hand is. When I bought mine I figured for $5 it was worth trying out. Some of the guys on the Hobart forum say the bead is too thin on the 1/16" rods for them to lay down accurately. IOW they like a bigger glob of metal they can see. Some people feel like they did a better job if the weld bead is too wide.

[macka]

I have Lincoln 3/32 rods. I still have a lot left, but orders from HF usually don't get here for 2 or 3 weeks, so I'd like to order more as soon as I start running low. 5 bucks for 2 pounds is a lot less than what I paid. Do you think I'd be better off with the 1/16's?

at that price it won't hurt to try them out

[TheKid]

Well my hands aren't that steady anymore. It's difficult to keep a straight line with the 3/32's, so I guess I'll stick with them. HF has them for 4 bucks for 2 lbs.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2721

[JayRay]

Thanks Trikeman, TheKid and Macka!
I will try out the 1/16" rods, a "thin" strong bead will do just fine. If my hands do not co-operate I can move up to the 3/32" ones. At only $4 and $5 per 2lbs it is worth trying both. I am using 14ga tube so either one should work well. The rest will depend on me, time for practice, practice, practice! :)
Jay

[macka]

My welding teacher says that he usually sees guys use 1/16 on thinner material and rosette welds. He also suggests a swirl over zigzag for better puddle control.

[TheKid]

I use both techniques. The problem is, I'm trying to weld in a straight line. :(

[JayRay]

Thanks Macka,
I am running out of things to cut, grind, fit, prep, clean, etc. I better get my butt in gear and get this welding thing down. Hmmm, was it zig - zag - swirl - swirl or swirl - zig - swirl - zag ??? I was never much of a dancer! LOL LOL LOL :o
Sorry I wandered off there a minute. I have been house bound for a week due to an injury and it is getting to me. A coworker that is used to welding lighter metals has suggested that very same thing Macka, Thanks again!
Back to practicing.
Jay

[trikeman]

My welding teacher says that he usually sees guys use 1/16 on thinner material and rosette welds. He also suggests a swirl over zigzag for better puddle control.

At least on the Hobart welding forum, 16ga-14ga definitely qualifies as thinner material. In fact, some of the guys there won't even attempt anything that thin with a stick. When I weld 16ga, I usually don't leave any intentional gap, so any weaving is going to take me pretty far from the actual joint and spread a lot of extra metal on the surface I don't need or want. Of course, one of the problems is that my fit-ups suck so I often have to weave to fill the gaps.

[macka]

At least on the Hobart welding forum, 16ga-14ga definitely qualifies as thinner material. In fact, some of the guys there won't even attempt anything that thin with a stick. When I weld 16ga, I usually don't leave any intentional gap, so any weaving is going to take me pretty far from the actual joint and spread a lot of extra metal on the surface I don't need or want. Of course, one of the problems is that my fit-ups suck so I often have to weave to fill the gaps.

weaving can be controlled to a tighter pattern, and in some cases you want the extra overlay to help strengthen the joint to help prevent stress failure.

[theTman]

yeah, 7014 along with 7024 is known as drag rod in the welding shop at school, because you can just drag the rod along and get beautiful welds. it is considered cheating if used for graded welds because it is so good and easy. mig is still my favorite though