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View Full Version : Man with big pair seeks robust frame for mutual fun and games.



DannyC
10-05-2014, 03:34 PM
Well, the wheels are fully built; I stole the new Big-Apple tyres off the existing bike and re-shod that one with the knobby off-road tyres it previously had.
http://s5.postimg.org/xrk4dx5nn/P1030280.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xrk4dx5nn/)
All I need to do now is get my act together and pluck up the courage to weld up the kingpin tabs and get back to my build in earnest.

Twinkle
10-05-2014, 03:52 PM
Well, the wheels are fully built; I stole the new Big-Apple tyres off the existing bike and re-shod that one with the knobby off-road tyres it previously had.
http://s5.postimg.org/xrk4dx5nn/P1030280.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xrk4dx5nn/)
All I need to do now is get my act together and pluck up the courage to weld up the kingpin tabs and get back to my build in earnest.

They are not pears they are BIG apples

looking good regards emma

FrankCrank
10-06-2014, 04:23 AM
....I'm dribbling down my chin looking at those :1eye: ....

DannyC
10-06-2014, 05:37 AM
Thanks Frank,

They do look smart and though they are rather substantial (1.2Kg per wheel) I think they will be very good.
I do like the way the wheel can be slid off and the QR axle pin removed leaving just the backplate and the shoes on the kingpin.
As they are common in the Velomobile community I am expecting the braking (sans-velo-shell) to be rather crisp.

darnthedog
10-06-2014, 09:29 AM
Looking good Danny- I await your ride report on them with great interest. I suspect the weight is the reason they are not a popular with Weight weenies trying to reduce every gram they can off their cycles. The Nuvinci N360 hub and the Sram Dual drive hubs are quit substantial as well. But my interest is functional reality. Do they work as good a disc brakes?
Till you have them mounted and riding down the road I don't know that from a personal stand point. Only hype from manufactures. Thus I await your report before future investment. I love the Quick release functionality of them-especially with my future travel plans.

DannyC
10-06-2014, 10:15 AM
I know all of the "Plans" say to carefully tack the axle-tabs on with the wheels mounted in order that the wheels can be checked for Vertical Alignment, but is this really necessary?
Surely, if the axle passes through the Tab at 90-degrees then ensuring the tab is vertical should be good enough? Although I grant you that any error at the tab end gets magnified at the wheel-rim.

Working alone I do not have enough limbs to hold stuff together/in-place as well as check and then tack.

As I set the head-tubes at 14.5 degrees off-vertical, surely all I do is make a jig that reverses this at the tab-to-steerer-tube interface?

Or maybe I am over-thinking this.

Any views/thoughts out there as to the most successful way forwards?

Thanks in advance.

darnthedog
10-06-2014, 10:53 AM
While I did it as the plans called for on the Warrior I have found this: http://web.archive.org/web/20111103012846/http://www.fleettrikes.com/tthindex.htm need to select King pin inclination or king pin. The Archive site is not linking correctly.
The jigging he used could be applied to any steering tab style. But once the jig was made up could make as many trike as you wanted provided you hung on to the jig of course.
It looks a lot easier than they way I did it the first time.
Also there are other examples of jigging it up by many of your fellow Zombies including Emma.

I agree with your desire to jig the tab over mounting those beauties and heating them up with welding heat. They will probably take it but the chance to melt metal into you tires or rim or discoloring the brakes is not worth it.

DannyC
10-06-2014, 02:04 PM
Thanks for that DTD (Bruce?),

I think that's a really good idea, I could make a simple jig up without too much trouble.
I even have one of those metal "angle-finders" I can use as a guide.

You are right in that I am feeling very protective of these hubs/wheels at this point.

Ticktock
10-06-2014, 09:03 PM
HI Dan,
Everything you say is right! But it really is easier to see errors if the wheels are in place. Also, you get to cancel out any small errors in the tab location that cannot be seen if its fully welded first. If you have a really good, rigid , accurate jig, go for it, but otherwise, I would follow the old way--locate, tack, check, tack more, check--full weld--hope its right path.
Steve G

imamedik
10-07-2014, 12:40 AM
While I did it as the plans called for on the Warrior I have found this: http://web.archive.org/web/20111103012846/http://www.fleettrikes.com/tthindex.htm need to select King pin inclination or king pin. The Archive site is not linking correctly.
The jigging he used could be applied to any steering tab style. But once the jig was made up could make as many trike as you wanted provided you hung on to the jig of course.
It looks a lot easier than they way I did it the first time.
Also there are other examples of jigging it up by many of your fellow Zombies including Emma.

I agree with your desire to jig the tab over mounting those beauties and heating them up with welding heat. They will probably take it but the chance to melt metal into you tires or rim or discoloring the brakes is not worth it.

DannyC, post 8 of this thread (http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php/8069-Imamedik-s-quot-Mid-drive-trike-in-round-tube-quot/page2) and 36-37 of this thread (http://forum.atomiczombie.com/showthread.php/5865-Starting-a-new-Trike-with-26in-wheels/page2) shows how I made my kingpins using the fleettrike method as a reference

if you try my way this is the order I would recommend

1. make the kingpins
2. weld the head-tubes to the cross-member
3. insert kingpins into headtubes set aside
4. get a 3ft section of threaded rod the same diameter as your axle, 10 nuts and some washers
5. two 4 to 6 inch pieces of 3/16"x 1.5 inch flatbar (can be used for bottom bracket later)
6. drill a hole same diameter as axle through the flatbar close to the end of both
7. thread two nuts in the middle of the threaded rod 1.5"s apart then the flatbar on either side then two more nuts to lock the flatbar in place
8. next is a nut washer nut and another washer (it is used as a spacer, will be removed later) approx 5.5 inches from either end
9. then the kingpin, wheel (with inflated tire) and finally a nut
10. the two tires are now parallel to each other
11. now you have to set your track width making sure both wheels are the same distance from the center then lock it in place by tightening the two inner nuts together (that way the wheels can be removed during the welding process without affecting the wheel track
12. this part will probably take a few adjustments, place the main boom in between the flatbar and set it at desired height
13. slide the flatbar along the main boom/ center boom until the desired wheel base is reached (distance from center of rear tire to center of front tires)
14. now you need to raise either the rear wheel/ main-boom 1.5 inches or the front wheels 1.5 inches. Whichever one that can be done without interfering with the threaded rod (may need to adjust wheel-base to accommodate)
15. firmly clamp the flatbar to the main-boom (mark location so it can be duplicated later)
16. swing one of the cross-members around until it contacts the center boom
17. place something flat (about the thickness of the washer from step 8) against the center boom so it contacts the cross-member on the top and mark it keeping it flat against the center boom align it along the front and back sides of the cross-member and mark those
18. now do the other cross-member
19. remove the cross-members from the threaded rod (keep the threaded rod clamped to the main/center boom
20. mark the bottom of the cross-members by connecting the two lines on the sides
21. cut cross-members along lines
22. put it all back together minus the extra washer from step 8
23. reset the main boom to correct height (i.e. get rid of the 1.5 inch spacers)
24. firmly re-clamp flatbar to main/center boom at previously marked location step 15
25. swing cross-members to center boom ensuring they mate up correctly
26. place a couple of good tack welds at the eight corners
27. remove all of the wheels and tighten a nut against the kingpin to lock it in place
28. completely weld around the cross-members in the proper sequence
29. after welds have cooled put the wheels back on to verify everything
30. once its all good you can remove the threaded rod

clear as mud:jester:

DannyC
10-07-2014, 01:05 PM
Hi imamedik,

I can see exactly how very well your described method works for "through-axle" hubs.
As these drum hubs have their own tubular axles mounted to the back-plate through which the 12mm hardened steel QR pins are inserted I could in theory use a temporary 12mm threaded rod to do what you suggest.
That would certainly ensure that the tabs were vertical and parallel to one another.

I shall have a play and see what I can come up with.

Many thanks.