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DannyC
10-22-2014, 05:53 PM
I was looking at e-bike conversion stuff (trying to keep up with the Jones's...aka Twinkle's & Sandman's ;-)) when I came across a UK ad that had the following picture in it's content.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzU2WDUxMg==/z/lLoAAOSwq7JT0~w3/$_12.JPG

That looks like the front-end of a trike to me, or am I barking mad?

The ad is this one.... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-8fun-Bafang-Mid-Drive-48V-750W-Electric-Bike-Motor-Conversion-Kit-BBS02-/171481572687?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item27ed19254f

That is the very first representation of a trike I have seen in one of these ads.

Interesting that they have put the motor up there where we displace our Bottom-Bracket shell to I thought.

Twinkle
10-22-2014, 06:44 PM
That is one serious piece of illegal e-power , I have seen one on a bike along the seafront and the guy had no problem riding alongside of me as I drove home at 30 mph .



The q100 series hub motors are the way to go they are rated 250/350 watts and are software limited in the UK to 15mph they are available from BMS and the rear wheel has provision for disc brakes , the advantage of the q100 is it is a geared unit that does not drain any human power when the motor is not in use .

regards emma

bambuko
10-22-2014, 07:21 PM
The beauty of the set-up that Dan brings to our attention is that it drives the crankset (as far as I can make it out from the info).
If so, then all the bike gears are available making it very efficient (much more so than any hub motors, even if geared).
The only thing you need to do is to use 250watt rated motor instead of illegal 750watt being offered and Bob is your uncle.

darnthedog
10-22-2014, 07:37 PM
First a disclaimer- I have never seen or used one of these.
Observation and wonder- When it is driving are the pedals driven? Or will the pedals free wheel while the motor drives? The issue I see if pedals are driven then there is no rest for the wicked and the resistance of the primary power- you against the motor pushing it along. Of course it will look like the power is coming from you the whole time. But how do you get to rest? As I said, just an observation.

bambuko
10-22-2014, 08:02 PM
http://youtu.be/jf6BMf28ats


http://youtu.be/kNLwQJF-RtY

clearly they do lower power versions as well
and yes Dan, you can install it on your trike as well - it makes no difference

bambuko
10-22-2014, 08:12 PM
and... a slightly more kosher version:
250watt version (http://eclipsebikes.com/bafang-8fun-bbs01-drive-250w-motor-p-1102.html)

available in UK as well for only £320 as well :cheesy:

Ticktock
10-22-2014, 09:46 PM
Just had a look at their site--and still can't tell, you if one can have a reat while the motor works! My guess is no, not with the basic setup.
But looking further into the site, free wheel crank sets (including a triple set) are available, so I would guess that the ability to have a rest is going to come with a price tag!
Unless some one can give a first hand answer to this, I would be asking the seller /maker about this, or checking very carefully!
I can still remember the effects of a fixed wheel peddle hitting the shin bone!
Steve

sandman
10-23-2014, 01:55 AM
Just had a look at their site--and still can't tell, you if one can have a reat while the motor works! My guess is no, not with the basic setup.
But looking further into the site, free wheel crank sets (including a triple set) are available, so I would guess that the ability to have a rest is going to come with a price tag!
Unless some one can give a first hand answer to this, I would be asking the seller /maker about this, or checking very carefully!
I can still remember the effects of a fixed wheel peddle hitting the shin bone!
Steve
Mornning Steve

Yes it does have a freewheel built in so no pedals beating your legs, It is probably the simplest mid drive I have seen to install
regards
John

bambuko
10-23-2014, 05:29 AM
Yes John,
that was my understanding as well (ie built in freewheel) - the second video shows the guy freewheeling btw.
Mind you by the time you add batteries to the package (another £350) the total cost for Dan (who already claims to have spend £1000 on his trike :surprised:) will equal the price of small car :rolleyes4:

DannyC
10-23-2014, 07:07 AM
Correction, I didn't say I had spent £1K; I said I wouldn't be surprised if it came to £1K by the time it is all finished.
The existing trike was >£550 and it did not have £270-worth of front hubs, so I am expecting a higher total on this one.

250 Watt might be a bit "tame", I wonder if you can remove a 500Watt badge and replace it with a 250Watt one? LOL.

I do like the idea of mid-drive and this arrangement looks quite elegant and is especially attractive as it is applied before all your other gearing comes into play.

darnthedog
10-23-2014, 07:37 AM
A 1K for a small car- wow must be nice.

Bambuko- Thanks for the videos and showing it does free wheel. I think I like the wheel hub a bit better as the Q100 appears small enough to hide the fact it is motorized hub. From the video it changes front BB to a single speed thus you have the gears in the back but you loose the front derailleur and multiple gearing. With the Q100 it may not have the gears but you have both front and back derailleurs. After all it is not supposed to drive you it is to assist you. Otherwise you might as well just drive a car. No?

And Danny- feel no guilt on spending that money. It is far less then the commercial trikes that are worth their weight. Besides if it breaks you can fix it.

Twinkle
10-23-2014, 08:08 AM
hi folks

another tu penny worth

Having ridden an overpowered( off road ) and legal trikes there are a few differences and the new EU regulations on EAPC ( which is what they are ASSISTED ) The new power is continuous not peak what the old regulations were maximum power . A new 250 watt motor will put out more power on hills etc than 250 watt and could be as much as 450 watt , this is a max rating and not a continuous value , The Q100 on the 20/20 trike is ample and gives full (7 x 3 in ny case ) range of pedalable gears .
Using the more modern LCD display controllers more choice is given to you as you can pre set the maximum speed ( EAPC regs is 15mph +/- 10% ) the level of pedal assist from none to 5 (max) and other displays like battery level and current output in watts .

John has designed a system using the q100 as a mid-drive that can drive independantly of the pedals and use the full range of available gears to increase the power for trailer towing on his touring trike , This might be the way to go .

The bugbear of the UK regulations is the trike has a maximum unloaded weight of 60kg hence the use of lightweight high capacity lithium based batteries

250 watts is more power than I can put out continuously and because of health reasons was the reason I chose to go electric ..
The trike is both my pleasure transport and my local runabout and saves me money on fuel at home I can also charge on free solar energy on my own off grid system that gives me totally carbon free , free transport .

After all its no good getting old if you can't get wise :)

regards emma

bambuko
10-23-2014, 10:02 AM
Emma, you mustn't forget that most of us (unlike you) are big and heavy and some of us live in rather hilly locations.
(Legal) hub motor, even with new regulations giving continuous 250watts, is not up to the job of assisting me, to get back to my village from the nearest town.
Only way (for me at least) is to do what John is planning - have motor power going through all the dérailleur gears.

This is an example (not the worst) of what I am talking about:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2I37mQsM8Tw/VEkEm-yIpoI/AAAAAAAAPvM/jJp0IpAnMUc/s640/hill.jpg

Little hill that I ended up pushing my hub e-assist bike because the motor even with me pedalling furiously wasn't up to it.
Fit cyclist can do it no problem, my wife (as light as yourself) can do it easily on the above mentioned e-bike, but I need better solution.
I don't need e-assist on anything up to 1.5% only for proper hills:
other side of the village is even more challenging :rolleyes4:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UAjeEeOFCkw/VEkJlcgzMEI/AAAAAAAAPvk/ZE5gLfdfkIQ/s640/IMG_8312.jpg
No hub motored, road legal in UK, e-assist bike with me on it pedalling as if my life depended on it will manage it ....

DannyC
10-23-2014, 10:52 AM
The combination of mid-drive with full gearing access and a "rebadged" motor might be in order then Chris?
A sensible person would not draw undue attention to themselves thereby inviting inspection by Mr. Plod and it might be possible to create a new "rating plate" somehow?
I am not encouraging wanton disregard for "rules & regs" but our nanny state is a bit overly zealous I think.

bambuko
10-23-2014, 11:13 AM
The combination of mid-drive with full gearing access and a "rebadged" motor might be in order then Chris?
Mid-drive via full set of gears should be efficient enough without shenanigans involved in using higher power motor.
Remember that there is no such thing as free lunch :cheesy:
More powerful motor will need heavier batteries (and therefore expending some of this increased power on itself).
More powerful/heavier motor set-up will require more power from myself when I don't need it on the flat.

I am less worried about nanny state - what scares me is the thought of irresponsible morons in charge of these powerful machines :rolleyes4:
If the average intelligence I encounter on the roads is anything to go by, vast majority of people should only be allowed to walk and not permitted anywhere near any machine (whether car or power assisted bike) :1eye:

Twinkle
10-23-2014, 12:08 PM
Mid-drive via full set of gears should be efficient enough without shenanigans involved in using higher power motor.
Remember that there is no such thing as free lunch :cheesy:
More powerful motor will need heavier batteries (and therefore expending some of this increased power on itself).
More powerful/heavier motor set-up will require more power from myself when I don't need it on the flat.

I am less worried about nanny state - what scares me is the thought of irresponsible morons in charge of these powerful machines :rolleyes4:
If the average intelligence I encounter on the roads is anything to go by, vast majority of people should only be allowed to walk and not permitted anywhere near any machine (whether car or power assisted bike) :1eye:


The Q100 and several other motors now have an inbuilt " gear system " that is basically a freewheel that when the motor is not in use, the motor does not rotate , Cheap Chinese hubs ( especially the higher output ones on E-Bay ) use a direct drive motor that saps power worse than having a bottle dynamo rubbing on the rear tyre of a DF

That is why John and I are in favour of these quite powerful motors John on his trike "hitched a lift" on my rear rack whilst going along the flat and I towed him happily to 20 mph

a pair of 37v 10 ah batteries should give a range in excess of 35 miles with little effort at a weight of under 4kg each

"what scares me is the thought of irresponsible morons in charge of these powerful machines :rolleyes4:"...... too true :surprised:

regards emma