Another Snag...

[SirJoey]

Tried to assemble my BBs this morning, but one of 'em must have warped a little during welding, cuz I can't get it together. :(

It'll be a couple of days before I do any more work on it, since I'm done for today, & tomorrow's Sunday, which for me, means no work.

When I resume work on it Monday, I'm gonna try cleaning out the threads thoroughly with a small wire wheel mounted in my drill. If that doesn't work, I'll have to take it somewhere to have the threads chased with a BB tap, if I can find any place that has one. If not, I dunno....

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[gbbwolf]

I have seen this before oh yeah I DID IT ALSO.
Now when I do one I find a set of cups I dont care if they get messed up and stick them in while I weld.

No more warping or getting spatter in the threads.


Nelson

[Sparky]

i thought i had done that in my build....

turns out i was trying to turn the bb cup the wrong way... blasted reverse threads...

[SirJoey]

...I find a set of cups I dont care if they get messed up and stick them in while I weld.
No more warping or getting spatter in the threads.

Yeah, I know I shoulda done it that way, but I've done several this way so far, & always gotten by with it. Problem is, threaded BBs are scarce as hen's teeth around here.

I didn't get any weld spatter in it, so maybe I'll get lucky & it'll just be a little crud in the threads that I can clean out. I sure hope so. If it really is warpage, I'm in trouble... :(

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[trikeman]

Why not just smear some anti-spatter grease in the threads before you weld it? You could probably also just stuff some Aluminum Foil in the Tube making sure you cover the threads.

[SirJoey]

Why not just smear some anti-spatter grease in the threads before you weld it? You could probably also just stuff some Aluminum Foil in the Tube making sure you cover the threads.

Even though I've never gotten anything in them (so far), that would still be a wise precaution!
Prolly still a better idea to screw in an old set of cups to help prevent warpage, if I had any to spare...

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[TheKid]

There are BB's cheap enough to risk losing a couple of cups for the sake of saving a BB shell with a tube already welded in position. If you don't want to buy them, just look for lugged framed bikes with 3 pc. cranks. There are plenty of them around. I save the BB's from them, but not the BB shells, so I have enough cups to risk losing. So far, I haven't lost one yet when using them to protect the BB shells.
I screw them in until the threads don't show, then tack weld the cups to the mounts. 3 tacks per side, alternating sides, then letting it cool, a couple of more tacks per side, cool, then "connect the dots", one side at a time, waiting for the first side to cool. No warping, no lost cups.

[gbbwolf]

Think he is worried about losing cups so much as ruining them.
I think Papa was the one to suggest to me to use old cups, rather than using my good ones while I welded.
I screw in a set of cups that may have pits on inside or other defect that makes them less desirable for permanent use.

Then once I have welding complete I remove them and use my good set.

This way if spatter hits the cup surface it is no loss.

My first set was slightly warped from heat I put it in the vise and got it round enough, that I was able to thread it in.

I'm worried more about warpage than spatter, I greased the threads with high temp automotive bearing grease before I put the cups in.

Welded my holes shut, then welding my mounts to it.

When I removed the cups, they came out esay as pie, cause the heat liquified the grease and 0 splatter stuck to anything inside.

Also the grease kinda helps keep the bottom bracket cooler I think.

Nelson

[gbbwolf]

If you need a bottom bracket shell I got a few, and some cups too.
I bought a few new ones from that place in florida, I was also out of them used.

But since I bought 4 to use I have found more used ones go figure LOL.

My problem isn't bottom brackets, head tubes, it's decent cranksets LOL.

Getting like 10 frames from under a guy's trailer tommorow.

Said they are stripped down but whole otherwise.

So might be some more bottom brackets in there also.

Need one or two just hollar and I'll send ya couple.

I got some help from here, in the parts dept.

So I don't mind sending something if I got extra's.

Might have to wait till thurs so I got money to ship it.

But won't cost chit for some bottom brackets and cups.

Let me know if ya need it.

Nelson

[TheKid]

3 pc. cranks are the hardest thing for me also. That means threaded BB's are also hard to come by. Luckily, there are 3 pc. kits that convert 1 pc. BB's to 3 pc. I think Joey bought them once, on the advice of another member.
As for welding with the cups in place, it's been my understanding that there should be holes when welding anything to help dissipate the heat. That's why you find holes in BB shells and head tubes when you hack donor bikes. Also, if using grease to help get the cups out, make sure it isn't flammable. Even high heat grease isn't made to withstand welding temps. I've seen that stuff go up in flames.

[gbbwolf]

Still there from where bottom bracket axle goes through hole in cups, so no worries there.
As for this grease I have put a torch to it before when I had to heat a rotor that had frozen up to get it free.
4x4 rotors run through mud bogs are a bugger after a year or so to get lose.LMAO

It has never caught fire.

Barely even liquifies after 20 mins with a torch on it so I think it be ok.

Well I know it was ok cause it still had grease after I welded the last one.
It has no melting point and will never run even in direct flame so it says.
I say bs because it does liquify somewhat, of course the stuff I got is like 10 years old so formula May have changed.

New stuff isn't called bearing grease anymore its called High Temp Spindle
Grease.

Made by company called fluoramics.
heres a link to thier new chit.
http://www.fluoramics.com/hightempspindle.shtml

Some of the best chit on the planet IMHO.

Had this bucket for years still half full.

Nelson

[TheKid]

It's most likely non-volatile, so it's safe.

[SirJoey]

Kid, thanx for the reminder on the best way to weld those mounts on without warpage. On some of my welding, I already do it that way, "connecting the dots", but on these, I have a bad tendency to "go for it" & weld 'em on with only two continuose beads, one from the edge of the mount to the center, & then one from the center to the other edge. With such monstrous heat, it's a miracle I haven't wrecked one before!

As for those BB conversion kits, I haven't bought one yet, but I was looking at 'em again just the other day. They must not be selling many, cuz they're even cheaper now. I think I'm gonna order a couple of 'em. Obviously, for me especially, threaded BBs are gonna be even more scarce than 3-piece cranksets, due to lugged frames, so I'm thinking these conversion kits might be my best bet.

Nelson, you're exactly right. I wouldn't mind using a couple of old cups just for the welding process, as you do, & use the same ones each time. I'm gonna look through everything I have tomorrow, & see if I have any, anywhere. When I do locate a couple, I'm considering welding a bolt onto each one, to give me a better surface to put a wrench on, thus assuring that I'll still be able to get 'em back out. If nothing else, at least a bolt head would be a lot easier to deal with than those tiny little flats on the cups!

Using the high-temp auto grease sounds like a great idea. Hadn't thought of that. I'll look for some, next gas-guzzling trip to town.

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[TheKid]

How about these for 3 pc. cranksets? These are the same ones I shortened last year, the painted ones in the pics in the "shortening cranks" thread.

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=10587

[TheKid]

Oops. I meant to say the BB shell to the mounts. The mounts being the plates that will bolt onto the boom.

The description I gave for the holes is condensed. What I read was that the holes will allow heat to dissipate and escape, preventing buildup of pressure. There was no mention of the puddle specifically, only that overheating and allowing pressure to build will cause the metal to warp and cause other problems. There was no elucidation on "other problems".
I like your tutorial much better. It explains in greater depth.

[mkane53]

It'd be tough to find cranks cheaper than this i would think.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600081&subcategory=60001031&brand=&sku=20985&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20ATB%20Cranks

[trikeman]

Good find mkane. Like you say, tough to find em cheaper than that.

[TheKid]

Cockabeana! That's a find!

I knew preheating was all but required for aluminum, but I never gave preheating steel any thought. Thanks, Papa.

[SirJoey]

Another snag, albeit a minor one. More of an annoyance, really. Turns out the der mount tubes on the pair of donor bikes that I got my front ders from, are oversized, so the ders won't clamp down on the standard size der mount tubes I'm using on the trike.

I pretty much have to use these particular ders, cuz I don't have another matching pair. Additionally, they're brand new, & match the rears.

Trying to decide what to use to shim 'em up, so they'll clamp. I'm thinking maybe several winds of black rubber tape. Prolly wouldn't look too bad, since the ders are black. Still, I hate jury-rigging. :rolleyes:

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[n9viw]

Alternately, you can use black rubber sheet. It's less expensive and more plentiful (to us) than something like electrical tape.

Where do you get it? That depends: how many of your donor bikes have flat tires? Pull the tube out, cut it into cross-sections about as wide as your der clamp (or a little wider, if you don't mind the black peeking out) and cut the 'rings' into strips. Et viola (twang!), shim strips! :D

[SirJoey]

Actually Nick, that occurred to me, but I was wondering if the stuff would be too "spongy", you know?
Those ders need to be pretty solid, to work right.

Wouldn't hurt to try that FIRST, though, before trying the tape. Might work BETTER, I dunno.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[TheKid]

Or you could just replace the tubes with the ones from the donors.

[John Lewis]

Another snag, albeit a minor one. More of an annoyance, really. Turns out the der mount tubes on the pair of donor bikes that I got my front ders from, are oversized, so the ders won't clamp down on the standard size der mount tubes I'm using on the trike.

I pretty much have to use these particular ders, cuz I don't have another matching pair. Additionally, they're brand new, & match the rears.

Trying to decide what to use to shim 'em up, so they'll clamp. I'm thinking maybe several winds of black rubber tape. Prolly wouldn't look too bad, since the ders are black. Still, I hate jury-rigging. :rolleyes:

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif
Hey Sir Joey,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. You've likely solved the problem anyway.

I had the same trouble. Here's what I did. I got a small length of pvc pipe about 3/4 inch long and about the same ID as the tube I wanted to shim. I slit it across , took a little extra out and slipped it on the steel tube.
Fits the derailer perfectly and has been on the bike now about 2000 km without a problem.

John Lewis

[SirJoey]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. You've likely solved the problem anyway.
...I got a small length of pvc pipe about 3/4 inch long and about the same ID as the tube I wanted to shim. I slit it across , took a little extra out and slipped it on the steel tube.
Fits the derailer perfectly and has been on the bike now about 2000 km without a problem.

Of course I don't mind, John. I welcome any & all suggestions (the main reason I posted this). Heck, that's half the point of the forum, right?

No, I hadn't decided what I was gonna do about it yet. Actually, I haven't gotten back to that point yet, as I'm still waiting on chains, cables & other stuff.

Was still debating how to go about it, but I like your idea the best! That'll make for a good, solid mount, not too much work, & won't look bad either!
Brilliant! Thanx a bunch! :D

Next trip to town, I'll have to buy some PVC!

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[John Lewis]

Hello Sir Joey,
Glad to help. Here is a picture of my shim. Dead simple and paint to match.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/lew2au/Shim.jpg

John Lewis

[SirJoey]

Hello Sir Joey,
Glad to help. Here is a picture of my shim. Dead simple and paint to match.

Neat! Just hope I can find PVC with a 1 1/8" ID.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[n9viw]

That looks like a winner! Paintable, too... don't know why it didn't occur to me. Even if you can't find one with 1-1/8" ID (most I know of go in steps of 0.25"), a 1" ID and a slight gap wouldn't be horrible, so long as the resultant OD is appropriate for the clamp of the der. You could also use 1.25" thinwall (such as PEX), slit it, and heat it with a hairdryer to form to a smaller ID, and cut off the excess where the two ends overlap.

[SirJoey]

Well, my search for the right size PVC was a bust. Made the dreaded trip to town yesterday, & even after extensive searching, came up empty-handed.
Searched through all of BOTH, the PVC, AND the CPVC stuff, but no luck. Even looked through all of the fittings, connectors, etc. El-zilcho.

So now, I'm kinda back to square one, so to speak, trying to figure out the best way to handle this.
Once again, the jury-rigged rubber tape solution is beginning to look like my only option.
This little "snag" has now elevated itself to the status of "setback", while I grope for a feasible solution! :(

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[Dave X10]

Well, my search for the right size PVC was a bust. ......... the jury-rigged rubber tape solution is beginning to look like my only option.
This little "snag" has now elevated itself to the status of "setback", while I grope for a feasible solution! :(



Sir,
Next trip to the hardware check-out the selection of hose. Clear vinyl is available in many sizes.

[n9viw]

True, the clear vinyl hose available in most home hardware stores is PVC, but it'll be quite a bit softer than CPVC or ABS, perhaps even softer than the tape he's planning to use.

Joey, got any tube stock you can cut up as shims? A couple layers of EMT, perhaps?

[SirJoey]

I'll look for the hose. That might be a viable solution.
The EMT might be do-able, too. Thanx, guys! :)

The only reason I don't cut the der tube off of the donors, per The Kid's suggestion,
is cuz they're both suspension bikes, & I wanna use those rear triangles, as-is, for other projects.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[TheKid]

The PVC could be a little larger. Just cut a small section out so the derailler will clamp it down to the right size. So if it's 1 1/4" ID, and you need 1 1/8" ID, you could make it just a tad smaller than 1 1/8" so it clamps tight. I believe PVC is 1/8" thick, so a 1 1/4" ID will have an OD of 1 1/2". 1 1/8" ID will have an OD of 1 3/8"
3.14 x 1.5 = 4.71
3.14 x 1 3/8 = 4.3175
4.41 - 4.3175 = .0925
so if you cut a 1/8" section out of the 1 1/4" ID tube, heat it with a hair dryer and it will slide on the derailler tube, and the derailler will clamp it tight. I'll send you a piece all ready to go.

[SirJoey]

...I'll send you a piece all ready to go.

Ooooh, that would be nice! If you do, don't forget, I need 2 of 'em, as this is the KC we're talking about here.

As it is now, I'm relegated to waiting for my next unavoidable trip to town, as it's far too expensive, gas-wise, to make a special trip.
I normally wait till a trip becomes unavoidable, then try to take care of everything at once while I'm there, usually wasting the better part of a day.
Unfortunately, this causes me frequent delays, when I need things for any given project.

I guess that's part of the price one pays for the peace & quiet of living in the boonies, sans neighbors!

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[TheKid]

I sent 3 pcs. cut from a 3/4" tee. The ID is 1 1/6", so I didn't slit them. I figured maybe it would be better if you just use some sandpaper or a utility knife and ream them until they fit tight.

[SirJoey]

Sweet! I appreciate it. Thanx a bunch! :)
That'll give me one for the next project too, the LWB bent
which I've already broken the ice on.

Maybe I won't be stalled for 2 or 3 more weeks after all!
That's good, cuz my deadline goal is only 5 weeks from Monday!

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

[John Lewis]

Well, my search for the right size PVC was a bust. Made the dreaded trip to town yesterday, & even after extensive searching, came up empty-handed.
Searched through all of BOTH, the PVC, AND the CPVC stuff, but no luck. Even looked through all of the fittings, connectors, etc. El-zilcho.



http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7131/sirjoeysigmedij1.gif

G'day Sir Joey,

Maybe all is not lost.
Here's a possible solution if you have a piece of pvc pipe.

Slit the pipe then heat carefully in oven or with a hot air gun. You can get the pvc to flatten out with a bit of help. A bit of downpipe might be best.

When you have your flat piece, cut a narrow strip. Heat again and wrap round a piece of cycle tube.

I've often made flat pieces for projects this way. My friend Dick has made trouser clips to keep pants out of chain and also fenders for his bent this way.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

I sent 3 pcs. cut from a 3/4" tee. The ID is 1 1/6", so I didn't slit them. I figured maybe it would be better if you just use some sandpaper or a utility knife and ream them until they fit tight.


Should have read down and saved my last post to Sir Joey.

Anyway, you will need to slit the pvc even if it's a snug fit otherwise it can't clamp up tight.

John Lewis

[SirJoey]

...Slit the pipe then heat carefully in oven or with a hot air gun. You can get the pvc to flatten out with a bit of help. A bit of downpipe might be best.
When you have your flat piece, cut a narrow strip. Heat again and wrap round a piece of cycle tube.
I've often made flat pieces for projects this way.

Hey, it's not for nothin, mate! That's still some good info, & good to know!
Besides, another kind offer of help is always appreciated! :)

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[TheKid]

I thought about the slit later. When I saw John's post, there was no need to post an "OOPS!" After slitting the shim, the ends shouldn't meet when you slide it on the post.