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Geoffrey
01-07-2016, 09:49 AM
Hi All,

Have seen plenty of springer forks but has anyone seen plans / dimensions of springs etc of the Merkel spring rocker for front forks for upright bikes?
The springs and rocker could be added to the "typical front forks of an upright bike" (no need for a springer "fork").
Apparently the Merkel (Flying Merkel?) had them in the early 1900s.
I believe the springs were attached low down on the existing forks with the springs then being extended down to the rear of the rocker, the pivot of the rocker was where normally the wheel axle would be and then the wheel itself was at the front of the rocker.
Anyone had any experience of these? Plans? Dimensions? Are they still made?

Look forward to any comments, leads etc.

Regards..............

Tradetek
01-08-2016, 04:03 AM
I've seen what you are talking about before. You might want to look on the low-rider bike sites.

Geoffrey
01-08-2016, 09:14 AM
I've seen what you are talking about before. You might want to look on the low-rider bike sites.

Thanks for the lead - no real luck although did find very old newspaper ad for them - but no real details............Regards

Tradetek
01-09-2016, 06:47 AM
This page is in Cyrrlic or something similar, but there is a series of images with detailed plans for one. Look on the right side of the page for a navigation box for the images of each page:

http://www.chipmaker.ru/gallery/image/12161/

Geoffrey
01-09-2016, 08:02 AM
Wow, thanks for your efforts Tradetek - close but no cigar! I've tried to post a copy of ad I have so you could see what I mean but couldn't figure how to add the picture - will try again tomorrow.

Regards and thanks again for your efforts!

Twinkle
01-09-2016, 10:58 AM
Wow, thanks for your efforts Tradetek - close but no cigar! I've tried to post a copy of ad I have so you could see what I mean but couldn't figure how to add the picture - will try again tomorrow.

Regards and thanks again for your efforts!

photos

http://www.atomiczombie.com/Forum%20Photos.aspx

regards emma

edspedalcars
01-09-2016, 01:01 PM
Hi Geoffrey

Is this what you are talking about?

https://www.google.com/search?q=merkel+front+fork+pictures&espv=2&biw=1067&bih=510&tbm=isch&imgil=9halEupMXdzllM%253A%253BLKLvHTyqaJKWhM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fthecabe.com%25252Fvbulleti n%25252Fshowthread.php%25253F48591-Anyone-here-own-a-Miami-Flying-Merkel-Bicycle%25252Fpage10&source=iu&pf=m&fir=9halEupMXdzllM%253A%252CLKLvHTyqaJKWhM%252C_&usg=__kHYocwK_SJEK-PvWdo9NwZOaMws%3D

Geoffrey
01-09-2016, 02:52 PM
Hi Geoffrey

Is this what you are talking about?

https://www.google.com/search?q=merkel+front+fork+pictures&espv=2&biw=1067&bih=510&tbm=isch&imgil=9halEupMXdzllM%253A%253BLKLvHTyqaJKWhM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fthecabe.com%25252Fvbulleti n%25252Fshowthread.php%25253F48591-Anyone-here-own-a-Miami-Flying-Merkel-Bicycle%25252Fpage10&source=iu&pf=m&fir=9halEupMXdzllM%253A%252CLKLvHTyqaJKWhM%252C_&usg=__kHYocwK_SJEK-PvWdo9NwZOaMws%3D

YES!! Thanks edspedalcars :D ..............now I just have to find out some dimensions (spring size etc). Looking at it it's hard to tell whether the rocker is in one or two pieces? and it looks like the spring can't move down without taking the support "arm" of the mudguard down with it !!?? (this seems wrong??) Has anyone had experience with this "spring rocker?" (was it/ is it any good?) Are you still able to buy them or could someone lead me to where I could get dimensions? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but it's 5:30am here and I'm up and drinking coffeeeeee...............:rolleyes4:

PS Thanks Emma for pointing out about posting photos - I guess now I'll have to try - but not this time - trying right now might fry the technology part of my brain at this hour...... :jester:

ken will
01-09-2016, 03:12 PM
Hi Geoffrey

Is this what you are talking about?

https://www.google.com/search?q=merkel+front+fork+pictures&espv=2&biw=1067&bih=510&tbm=isch&imgil=9halEupMXdzllM%253A%253BLKLvHTyqaJKWhM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fthecabe.com%25252Fvbulleti n%25252Fshowthread.php%25253F48591-Anyone-here-own-a-Miami-Flying-Merkel-Bicycle%25252Fpage10&source=iu&pf=m&fir=9halEupMXdzllM%253A%252CLKLvHTyqaJKWhM%252C_&usg=__kHYocwK_SJEK-PvWdo9NwZOaMws%3D

You can also use compression springs like this:
http://www.sidestrider.com/leadinglink2.gif

BMW and the Honda Dream both used levers connecting the axle, fork, and springs.

The Honda Dream had the fork pivot at the rear of the levers, the spring was in the middle, and the axle was at the front of the levers
http://picture.gj18.com/Thumbnails/2015072321/1965-Honda-Dream-300-300---Motorcycles-For-Sale-28566.jpg

Geoffrey
01-09-2016, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE= it looks like the spring can't move down without taking the support "arm" of the mudguard down with it !!?? (this seems wrong??) [/QUOTE]

Maybe the mudguard "arm" acted as a "spring damper"?....................

edspedalcars
01-09-2016, 05:11 PM
Geoffrey

Not sure if you are wanting to 'restore', or 'replicate', the original.

But, if you are wanting to use the same 'type' of suspension, then the dimensions can be self determined, for the most part.

This type suspension to me, is called an 'inverted springer'. It is found on thousands of motorcycles.
I adapted my own version, using the basic parts from a bicycle, and designing the 'rockers', to fit the theme of the Inferno build..

The springs are from an actual bicycle front springer. I got them for 3 bucks, at my local swap meet.

http://s27.postimg.org/li9isd1jj/2014_05_27_12_27_52.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/li9isd1jj/) http://s29.postimg.org/5m65ragtv/2014_05_27_12_26_30.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5m65ragtv/)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ7Sf7qdxdw

Geoffrey
01-09-2016, 09:16 PM
Thanks Ed, very, very helpful - terrific thanks.
Can see how to sort out measurements - to make the comparison (to sort out what size I need) what diameter wheel is your springer on please?
Seeing your design and video (how it works) was very inspirational and helpful. Great design - I want one!! :punk:

Thanks again, very much appreciated. Regards Geoffrey. :D

edspedalcars
01-09-2016, 09:54 PM
Thanks Ed, very, very helpful - terrific thanks.
Can see how to sort out measurements - to make the comparison (to sort out what size I need) what diameter wheel is your springer on please?
Seeing your design and video (how it works) was very inspirational and helpful. Great design - I want one!! :punk:

Thanks again, very much appreciated. Regards Geoffrey. :D

Only to glad to help, Geoffrey

I'm usually the one asking for help, so it's nice to be able to offer.

The wheel is 20" ( 68 spokes )

Geoffrey
01-10-2016, 01:32 AM
Thanks again Ed, brilliant.

Regards Geoffrey

Geoffrey
01-13-2016, 01:08 AM
Hi again Ed,

Thinking about your springer forks again - to hot to work outside - forgot to ask, hope you don't mind?
1/ What are your rockers made of? (they look like aluminium??) and
2/ How thick are they?
3/ Did you lengthen the forks at all?

Hope you don't mind, thanks again for your previous help.

Regards.................

Tradetek
01-13-2016, 12:01 PM
Looking at it it's hard to tell whether the rocker is in one or two pieces
It would need to be one piece although it might not be straight otherwise the stresses involved would be likely to simply turn one of the arms at the attachment point.

edspedalcars
01-13-2016, 12:58 PM
Hi again Ed,

Thinking about your springer forks again - to hot to work outside - forgot to ask, hope you don't mind?
1/ What are your rockers made of? (they look like aluminium??) and
2/ How thick are they?
3/ Did you lengthen the forks at all?

Hope you don't mind, thanks again for your previous help.

Regards.................

Don't mind at all.

I drew out the shape I wanted, on a piece of cardboard, took it to my metal supplier/fab shop,
and had them (rough cut) them out with their plasma cutter.

Secured them together, finished filing them to this point. Will do final detailing when it's time to paint and polish.

The springs are 'tapered' on each end, as you can see.
I welded axle nuts to both ends, and used axle sections, to secure the springs to the brackets.
The top axle section is 'loose', so it can be turned, then locked tight with the nut.
The bottom axle section is welded to the 'pivot bracket', but can be turned for adjustment if necessary.
This method also allows for adjustment, of the rockers, when installing.

The forks are stock length.

The top spring bracket is two pieces of 1/8" plate, welded together to make it thicker.
Then I drilled the hole for the spring stud, and shaped the bracket to conform to the fork tube.


http://s7.postimg.org/670uyibaj/2014_05_27_12_26_30_rocker_dimensions.jpg





Any question, anytime ....http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/jobs/teacher-smiley-emoticon.gif

Geoffrey
01-13-2016, 04:50 PM
Wow Ed,

Thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive answer - should be everything I need...............:sunny: Thanks again, regards..........:D

PS your rockers rock ! LOL :punk: