Another FWD Delta trike.

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Today we had a play at pseudo-I-Leaning the Delta by putting one wheel Fwd and One wheel aft.

While it would stand up, one puff of breeze, slightest touch, it still collapsed in a heap and did not appear essentially any more stable/less prone to falling over than with both wheels in the "trailing arm configuration.
It may be that I have used alcohol infused steel and it stands no chance of standing up straight unaided ;)

 
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Dan

A brave attempt , however you need to go one stage further ?

Lengthen the vertical connectors till you have the biggest angle you can get between the 2 trailing arms [ 90' is ideal , however less may work ?]

It wants to look like this :-




Paul
 
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Le Canard est Mort!
I have decided to go in another direction with this.
 
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Following (not leading, please note) on from Paul's adventures in Big-Boy's-Python land I have been looking to see what (if any) of the findings Paul has bravely discovered for us all could be utilised/relevant to my desire to make use of my 24" wheels and my second N380 drive.

I am all too often inclined to go steaming into building without thinking things through fully so I wanted to stop and take stock of what it might look like.
Please excuse the rudimentary nature of the "mock-up" picture below.

When I assemble the "stack" of all the elements and measure it to find the height that the rider will be sat above the ground I get a very scary figure of 27".
The elements are (reading left to right):
  1. Rear Suspension swingarm (1" above rear-axles).... joined to....
  2. Main keel.
  3. Elastomer Layer.
  4. Seat frame Section
  5. Seat cross-bar level.
  6. Actual mesh seat level.
I am concerned that this might possibly be a bit "too-high" for safety and I might need a step-ladder to mount/dismount. ;)
Now I do have a baldric (cunning plan) that would allow me to have a narrow (<28") track for transport/storage purposes but a wider (30"+) track for riding.
With an element of "rider-tilt" (not trike tilt) will this be enough to make it a safe viable proposition?







 
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if we are going for 30" + track why are we also having elastomer's to allow seat to tilt ?

where are you intending riding this ? much above 30" becomes anti-social to other users/traffic on a shared path.

I assume this is a ' hack ' machine to prove various apsect's ?
track
w/b
seat height etc

We are not expecting a Holland ready machine at the first attempt ?

Paul
 
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if we are going for 30" + track why are we also having elastomer's to allow seat to tilt ?

where are you intending riding this ? much above 30" becomes anti-social to other users/traffic on a shared path.

I assume this is a ' hack ' machine to prove various apsect's ?
track
w/b
seat height etc

We are not expecting a Holland ready machine at the first attempt ?

Paul
Looking to use frame(s) parts/bits/wheels/seats etc. that I already have... in a combo that works.
Tilting seat? If you sit higher you may need to tilt a bit if you don't want to tip over? I don't know what the formula/parameters are.
I can alter my frame geometry easily and scrap all suspension and go "FLAT-FRAME" end to end or even dip my frame below the 12" axle height and still be sitting "high". :)
No, not looking for a Hollander on a first attempt.
 
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Looking to use frame(s) parts/bits/wheels/seats etc. that I already have... in a combo that works.
Tilting seat? If you sit higher you may need to tilt a bit if you don't want to tip over? I don't know what the formula/parameters are.
I can alter my frame geometry easily and scrap all suspension and go "FLAT-FRAME" end to end or even dip my frame below the 12" axle height and still be sitting "high". :)
No, not looking for a Hollander on a first attempt.
The CG, center of gravity, is roughly at the riders belly button height and location. A triangle formed by the 3 tire contact points with the road and a line parallel to the trike track from the CG, will show max turn rollover point on a side. If that line on a side is equal to the CG height, the max turn force is 1 G. if the tires don't slide. Max tuning force is linear, example: that line is 1/2 length is half force, (slow down for the turns).
If you can mount heavier things lower, reducing CG height, it will help. As electric cars mount the heavy batteries below the car floor.
 
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The CG, center of gravity, is roughly at the riders belly button height and location. A triangle formed by the 3 tire contact points with the road and a line parallel to the trike track from the CG, will show max turn rollover point on a side. If that line on a side is equal to the CG height, the max turn force is 1 G. if the tires don't slide. Max tuning force is linear, example: that line is 1/2 length is half force, (slow down for the turns).
If you can mount heavier things lower, reducing CG height, it will help. As electric cars mount the heavy batteries below the car floor.
Hi Tom,
I am going with a revised frame layout and my seat will be lower as a result (my re-use of older stuff was limiting my options, so NEW steel will be used).
TBH, I don't need a 3rd trike, but building is addictive and a lot of FUN.
 
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It was suggested that I have never posted pictures of my Python, so I thought I would sneak some in here.

Here it is alongside the Tadpole "Loki".
It has essentailly the same wheelbase as the tadpole but has no luggage capacity. :(


Here's a front-view.



Here's a side-view.



Here's a top-down view of the after section.



Some adjustment of the brakes was required.



Here it is with the 24" wheels on the back.

 
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Dan

Did you forget to turn the cloaking device off ?

Paul
 
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Dan

Did you forget to turn the cloaking device off ?

Paul
Nope, I think Postimg is having an issue. I can see the pictures in my gallery on their site but I cannot see them full size at the moment.
And........ now I can. :)
 
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Nope, I think Postimg is having an issue. I can see the pictures in my gallery on their site but I cannot see them full size at the moment.
And........ now I can. :)
Dan

very strange they flash on briefly , then the text is spaced about 5 lines apart and there is nothing in the gap ?

Paul

Sorry they don't it is showing the first picture in this page , then moves the page down to post #129 then no pictures nor picture place holders ?

As you say maybe post img is having a bad hair day.....

Paul
 
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It was suggested that I have never posted pictures of my Python, so I thought I would sneak some in here.

It has essentailly the same wheelbase as the tadpole but has no luggage capacity. :(



really ? looks more like someone couldn't be ar*ed to make a pannier rack ?



Looks like 3 places for luggage to me ?

Paul
 
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really ? looks more like someone couldn't be ar*ed to make a pannier rack ?



Looks like 3 places for luggage to me ?

Paul
Appearances may be deceptive, but there is no "cage framework" for pannier hanging that is true.
Like the hole in the fence of the nudist colony next-door...I will look into it. ;)
 
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Ok lets have your 2 panniers [ suitably stuffed with pillows or cushions ] and the tent applied to the rear of the Python to see what space we really have and how best to use it ?

Why you ask ?

Well I may well be following you down that path and then will have the same restrictions as you .
As that is the simplest and strongest , most material economic shape for the rear end ?

Paul
 
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Ok lets have your 2 panniers [ suitably stuffed with pillows or cushions ] and the tent applied to the rear of the Python to see what space we really have and how best to use it ?

Why you ask ?

Well I may well be following you down that path and then will have the same restrictions as you .
As that is the simplest and strongest , most material economic shape for the rear end ?

Paul
I was hijacked today into cutting down a Hazel clump in the garden and mowing the lawn.
Tomorrow will probably be a "play-day" though.
I checked those Panniers and they are 60L as a pair (as you said).
I will try and sensibly stuff one and measure its dimensions. and see where it fits (or not).
If I do the Vari-track mod to a new/improved rear-end I may cheat a little and put a cranked section in there to lower the X-beam so the CoG when loaded is improved.
I will have to put the wheel mounts on Vertical posts if I do this, but it is all good experience to see what works/doesn't work.
I will let you know the figures for the pannier ASAP.
I also have a fold-up "InstaCrate" that is 21 x 14.25 x 11.6 inches and that says its has 12 Gallons/46Litre capacity; I will see IF that can fit in the currently available load-space as a comparison.
 
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I checked those Panniers and they are 60L as a pair (as you said).

I also have a fold-up "InstaCrate" that is 21 x 14.25 x 11.6 inches and that says its has 12 Gallons/46Litre capacity; I will see IF that can fit in the currently available load-space as a comparison.
I have been to Holland with 2 x 20 ltr and 2 x 12.5 ltr = 65 ltr , which I found was adequate but I was very strict with what I took , however I did have my sleeping bag inside a waterproof stuff sack inside a pannier [ cos I'm anal like that ;) ]

So your 60 ltr maybe be adequate ?

Paul
 
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[ cos I'm anal like that ;) ]
You? Anal about stuff (bordering on OCD)? Packing lists, lots of prep? Who'd have guessed it? ;)
But..... I went 1st time with you & John and had that whole trailer full PLUS 2 panniers full and in there was a complete load of IT crap and a change of clothes for nearly every day :ROFLMAO:
 
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You? Anal about stuff (bordering on OCD)? Packing lists, lots of prep? Who'd have guessed it? ;)
I though everyone did that ....... till I met you and John that is :whistle:

But..... I went 1st time with you & John and had that whole trailer full PLUS 2 panniers full and in there was a complete load of IT crap and a change of clothes for nearly every day :ROFLMAO:
Is that counting the banana bags ?

Paul
 
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