Ed's 'StreetRunner' Quad Build

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I've just noticed the offset spokes in the rim. You probably mentioned this many moons ago when you built them but could you explain the choice please.
Sure thing.

The reason

The original bicycle tire look was to narrow for this project.
So I did some research about an 'old school' styling of wide rims and how wide could the tires go and still work.
The end result was I could go twice the rim width and the tires would still hold with no safety issues. Yet they would look wider/fatter. Which they do.
It takes two tubes to get the right amount of air pressure and sidewall strength.

The process
I used two more identical rims and secured one to each of the old rims, using pop rivets, some screws, and plenty of JB Weld. They ain't coming apart.
I filled in the gap between the two rims with body filler and sanded until I had the look of one rim.
It was a lot of work with this method. Next time I would use steel rims so they can be welded together.
To center the hub/spokes created a spoking tension/angle situation that I found wasn't to my liking. So I went 'old school' and left the spokes/hub off-center, in their original holes. Because the vehicle is more for show and 'slow' go, the off-set won't be a problem.
 
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Thanks for that. Did your choice predate the introduction of fat tyres to cycles?
No, it was all about DIY. Using the parts on hand, and having the, I wonder if I can mentality?
Anyone can order parts and put together their 'erector set'.
I only order parts as a last, or near last resort.

While I'm here I might as well do an update to the DIY brake disc, (DIC - Do It Can't).
The hubs I have are not weldable. So I'm in redesign mode figuring how to make my own hubs.

The problem with redesign in midstream. One is libel to drown with the added weight of the new fabrication.
I can make more hubs, that's not a problem. The problem is the bearing and axle combination.
I only have the one axle/hub that is strong enough for this use.
I would hate having to redesign and fabricate new hubs and matching spindles as well.
My brake kit is supposed to arrive today, so maybe that will help with the design.
 
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Problem Solved - I Think

I wasn't sure if I could actually do what you see below. It seemed feasible in my thoughts, but was I capable of making it a reality?

First I knocked out the bearing cups from the original hub. Next was to find a suitable size tube to press the cups into for the new hub barrel.
Voila!, just happen to have one.

Cutting a couple of relief slots


Prior to pressing in.



I pressed into service one of my more complex 'bearing presses', Model BPHC-1. Though it is the cheaper hand crank model.
Actually it was free from a friend that no longer needed such a thing.
And it works great as a bar clamp as well...:D



With moderate effort, both bearing cups have been seated and confirmed square.
May put a small tack weld on the slots later. after all other flanges etc are installed and checked.
I only have four, 14mm axle bearing cups, so I must be very careful how I proceed to each new step.



After a few measurement verifications, the new hub barrel is installed and checked for smooth rotation.
I'm pleased that all is 'turning' out AOK.



Now to design exactly where the disc mounting flange needs to go.


 
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That looks very nice Ed'. :D
 
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I get the impression your going to weld spoke flanges to your new hubs?
I like your idea.
how are you adjusting camber/caster?
 
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I get the impression your going to weld spoke flanges to your new hubs?
Oh, I thought those were the brake discs not hub flanges??????
 
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Oh, I thought those were the brake discs not hub flanges??????
What you see is the brake disc. I'm using the disc to help spot where (and how) I need to make the flange.
I need to know where to put the disc mounting flange.
I get the impression your going to weld spoke flanges to your new hubs?
I like your idea.
how are you adjusting camber/caster?
Your impression would be correct. However, I've just discovered that the new hubs will have to be made in a particular sequence.
I have six flanges to make. The two brake flanges will be made using modified pedal sprockets from a child's bike.
I've drilled out an old child's bike sprocket to fit over the new barrel. But it won't fit over the expanded ends for the bearing cups.
So what was first will now be last.
I will knock out the cups and see if I can squeeze the tubing back so I can get the flange over the end.
If that won't work or work well, I will cut a new tube and start over again. But I will weld the flanges in place first, and press in the bearing cups last.
That last statement makes me think I have to think of a different method for pressing in the cups.
With the flanges welded on, it will no longer fit in the clamping device.

Caster and Camber

These measurements were decided on, based on settings normally used in hot rod building and not recumbent bikes.
So you may see differences.

Caster
My caster angle is 6 degrees, (positive) But it is adjustable.
Caster angles for my purpose are generally between 2-8 degrees.
Camber
My (kingpin) angle is 4 degrees. Not adjustable.
I'm working with a near-neutral camber.
 
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Huba, Huba, Huba

Before I cut any more precious metal, I thought it best to make some hardboard hub flanges just to see.



As you can see there is no room for threading the spokes through the inner flange, without bending them so far they would be unusable.





I haven't decided on which sequence I will use to fabricate this. As minimum, it looks like the spokes need to go into the inner flange before the flange is welded in place. The outer two flanges center holes will need to be filed out enough to get them over the expanded bearing cup tube ends.

I suppose I could make the wheel flanges larger and use shorter spokes.
I may have enough spokes laying around to do that. Something to think about.
If not I can order them from the same source I got my custom spokes for the 'quad-rim', I made.
Does anybody remember the 'quad-rim'?




This brake system is apt to cost me $$$.
The hoses are super stiff, one is too short. and the loop for the calipers may cause a problem as it has to articulate.

 
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You could make a disc flange smaller than the spoke flange and then bolt an adapter flange for the disc to it after lacing the wheel. It means making an extra component but may be a work around
 
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You could make a disc flange smaller than the spoke flange and then bolt an adapter flange for the disc to it after lacing the wheel. It means making an extra component but may be a work around
Thanks, that's a good thought. I will look at that the next time I go out.

Sort of an adapter for the adapter.
 
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Popshot "stole" my response that was in my brain before I got to his response. You have to keep in mind how you would go about replacing a broken spoke if it were to happen.
I looked at making the disc flange smaller, but the bolt pattern won't allow for it.
However I can make the inner spoke flange larger, same principle.
The same method I used on my 4x1 rims. (see below)

Good point Kevin. So this is a possible answer to 'that' concern.

A 'sleeve hub'. The inner hub will contain the bearings and the flange for the brake disc.
The 'outer' sleeve hub will contain the two flanges for the spokes.
A yet to be decided method of securing the outer sleeve hub to the inner bearing hub.

A set screw first comes to mind, but I'd like something stronger. Less likely to rotate.
Maybe two short bolts 180 degrees to each other in the center of the hubs.
There won't be much rotational drag except for the drag from the brake. I think :unsure:

Another option is to make the inner flange larger and use shorter spokes.

 
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First, mock-up of new hub flanges.

Original hub diameter is 2 3/4 ".
The new larger inner hub will be 3 1/2".
That is if the lacing proves out the new dimension.

I had to make a couple of mock-up originals. The spoke holes were too close to the edge.
So I had to make another larger one.



I have glued the flanges to the tube with Gorilla glue. So 'he' better hang on tight, while I do a trial respoking of the rim.



The original spokes are 7" long.
So the front spokes will remain at 7", and the rear(inner) spokes will be 5 1/2".
I have 52, 5 1/2" spokes. Enough to do both of the new flanges.
I will let the glue dry and hope it will be enough to stand up to all the tugging and pulling of spoke lacing.

No torquing down. Just a fit check to determine spoke length with my chosen flange diameter.

 
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Sacrificial rim

Normally I wouldn't touch one of these rims. They are 6 1/2" spokes.
The spokes were on so tight that my spoke wrench wouldn't work. The tight spacing and my spoke drivers just mangled the nipples.
But I have more and I needed/wanted those spokes.



The 3 1/2" flange didn't work.

I took a break and looked up spoke length calculators. Too much trouble, as they wanted manufacturers specs for the hub.
Well I don't have any, as it's a custom hub.
So I looked at my other hub which is still laced and measured/calculated the spoke length for a 5"
flange. The same size as the brake disc.

So after cutting out yet another flange circle @ 5" I set about working with the two spoke lengths.
Because the glue didn't hold (after I exceeded its tensile strength ) I had to resort to using clamps.





It's now the end of the day, my fingers are sore, and I ache. But we have made progress.
These last 4 photos show the completed lacing, though not torqued or trued obviously.
It looks like the 5" flange will work, but I need to drill the spoke holes just a wee bit closer to the outside.
There seems to be too much material between the hole and the outer edge, which is binding the spoke a tad.



At this point and with some spokes yet to be put in, it was obvious that the 5" flange and 5 1/2" spokes were going to work out ok.
The hub is centered back into its original position.



I will let today's progress set in before I commit to cutting out metal flanges.
An added design element seems to be the dual side by side 5" plates. The larger flange now conceals the nuts/bolts for the disc adapter.

I must 're-verify that the caliper will fit with this flange size.
If it won't fit, I'll be looking for another answer.
Probably just move the wheel out a smidge.



Got to make sure there is enough space between the rear flange and the disc for the caliper.

 
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there are spoke calculators that allow you to input the hub dimensions.
I am interested in the front spindles/ king pin configuration and assembly. Will need to go over your blog to see actual assembly.
If you post hub sizes and wheel dimensions I will check your spoke selection.
 
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there are spoke calculators that allow you to input the hub dimensions.
I am interested in the front spindles/ king pin configuration and assembly. Will need to go over your blog to see actual assembly.
If you post hub sizes and wheel dimensions I will check your spoke selection.
Thanks, Idaho

I'll get those dimensions to you.
I think I've got them close now, but it would be nice to know 'how close'.
I haven't cut metal yet.

If you're looking at how I made the spindles/kingpin and don't find what you want,
it may be because of losing the early part of the thread, due to the change to the new website.

Let me know and I will try to get info/pics if you want.
 
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here is what I came up with using two different calculators. Measurements in metric
172.2-175.7mm one side
161-160.6mm other side
good luck
 
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here is what I came up with using two different calculators. Measurements in metric
172.2-175.7mm one side
161-160.6mm other side
good luck
Those are close to what I am currently using. ( 7"/177.8mm and 5.5"/139.7mm)

The disc adapter flange is fixed at 3" diameter.
The axle length is also fixed, so there is virtually no room for widening the distance between the flanges to accommodate spoke lengths.
So this isn't so much about matching the spoke length, as it Is about determining what size flange I need make, to use the spokes I have.

Another option

The original spoke flanges are 2.75" (69.85mm)

If I increase not one, but both spoke flanges to 3.25" (82.55mm) then what does your magic calculator say to that?
That will leave just enough so I can thread the spokes through with little to no trouble.
Another plus will be the hubs will look less like bicycle hubs and more an automotive look.

If I could get it so I can use the 6.5" spokes for the whole wheel that would work as well.
Though that would mean trying to get another 28 spokes from my remaining 68 spoke wheels.

Thanks for your help.
 
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